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Apple introduces M4 chip

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931–940 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#931
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here it is in an OS that can't even max out an M1! That said, the function keys make me think "and it runs macOS" is coming, and THAT would be extremely compelling.

What function keys?

The new Magic Keyboard has a laptop-style row of function keys (and esc!).

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#932
part of me wonders if the reason apple went with an unusual double jump in processor generation is that they are fearing or at least trying to delay comparison with other desktop class arm processors. wonder if mac lineup will get m4 at all or start with m4 pro or something. we'll see.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#933
post #332

Why are we running these high end CPUs on tablets without the ability to run pro apps like Xcode? Until I can run Xcode on an iPad (not Swift Playgrounds), it's a pass for me. Hear me out: I don't want to bring both an iPad and Macbook on trips, but I need Xcode. Because of this, I have to pick the Macbook every time. I want an iPad, but the iPad doesn't want me.

I've been saying this for years, I would love to get a desktop Mac and use an iPad for the occasional bit of portable development I do away from a desk, like when I want to noodle on an idea in front of the TV. I'm very happy with my MacBook, but I don't like that the mega expensive machine I want to keep for 5+ years needs to be tied to a limited-life lithium battery that's costly and labour intensive to replace, ju…

I've been giving some thought to this. I wonder if an iPad would suffice in front of the tv and just ssh into a Mac Mini for dev work. I'd love an iPad but I can't justify it either because of the limitation of hardware capabilities. I also don't really want to purchase two machines just for dev tasks and travel. But, I think having that kind of lifestyle will be expensive no matter the approach.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#934

part of me wonders if the reason apple went with an unusual double jump in processor generation is that they are fearing or at least trying to delay comparison with other desktop class arm processors. wonder if mac lineup will get m4 at all or start with m4 pro or something. we'll see.

Doesn't add up, if you fear something about to launch will outdo your product in a given segment then you push that launch earlier, not later so your competitor is also first to market.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#935

> M4 has Apple’s fastest Neural Engine ever, capable of up to 38 trillion operations per second, which is faster than the neural processing unit of any AI PC today. How useful this is for free libraries? Can you invoke it from your Python or C++ code in a straightforward manner? Does it not rely on proprietary drivers only available for their own OS?

It's a piece of hardware so it'll have their own driver but you can access it through the OS APIs just like any other piece of hardware. What's new is the improvement in speed, Apple has exposed their NPUs for years. You can e.g. run Stable Diffusion on them.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#936

> M4 has Apple’s fastest Neural Engine ever, capable of up to 38 trillion operations per second, which is faster than the neural processing unit of any AI PC today. I didn't even realize there is other PC-level hardware with AI-specific compute. What's the AMD and Intel equivalent of Neural Engine? (not that it matters since it seems the GPU where most of the AI workload is handled anyway)

AMD/Intel just call it an NPU.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#937
post #743

“M4 has Apple’s fastest Neural Engine ever, capable of up to 38 trillion operations per second” Let that sink in.

Built in to a SoC* e.g. a 2060 from 5 years ago had double that in tensor cores it just wasn't part of the SoC. Great improvement for its type/application, dubious marketing claim with the wording.

And it's really not that great even though it's a welcomed improvement - Microsoft is pushing 45 TOPs as the baseline, you just can't get that in an APU yet (well, at least for the next couple months).

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#938

> M4 has Apple’s fastest Neural Engine ever, capable of up to 38 trillion operations per second, which is faster than the neural processing unit of any AI PC today. I didn't even realize there is other PC-level hardware with AI-specific compute. What's the AMD and Intel equivalent of Neural Engine? (not that it matters since it seems the GPU where most of the AI workload is handled anyway)

> not that it matters since it seems the GPU where most of the AI workload is handled anyway

GPUs can also have AI-specific compute (e.g., Nvidia’s tensor cores.)

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#939

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

> In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending data up to the cloud for processing). Their primary business goal is to sell hardware. Yes, they’ve diversified into services and being a shopping mall for all, but it is about selling lu…

Nearly 1/4th of their revenue is Apple services, and its their primary source of revenue growth to feed the beast.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#940
Interesting, it seems Apple knows they are up against the wall where there isn't really much more their devices NEED to do. The cases that Apple gives for using these devices incredible compute is very marginal. Their phones computers and iPads are fantastic and mainly limited by physics. I have basically one of everything, love it all, and do not feel constrained by the devices of the last 3-4 years. Vision and Watch still leave room for improvement, but those are small lines. Limited opportunity to innovate, hence the Vision being pushed to market without a real path forward for customer need/use. Very few people read about the latest iPad m4 and think "oh wow my current iPad cant do that..."

Curious what steps they will take, or if they shouldn't just continue returning large amounts of cash to shareholders.

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