Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

931–940 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#931

Post by berkes »

willseth wrote: post #688
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that kind of the point? The goal was to get out of Apple's clutches when your customers have their devices, so Apple made the thing meant to be independent even more dependent than the original in order to deter adoption.

The parent comment cited Web Distribution as evidence that Apple doesn't actually care about safety and security, when in fact Web Distribution is more secured than Marketplace distribution. > The goal was to get out of Apple's clutches when your customers have their devices Whose goal? Read the DMA. It is very explicit that it expects Apple to maintain security of devices and apps.

> Apple doesn't actually care about safety and security, when in fact Web Distribution is more secured than Marketplace distribution.

That's a contradiction in logic there. If they cared for security, they would choose the more secured option. But they didn't?

Either they then have provided worse security all along: web distribution could have offered more security than an app store? Or they could have provided even better security in their app store all along: if they implemented this stricter checking there. Why not?

These arguments are poor and don't stand up to scruteny.

The very simple conclusion is that it's not about security, that it never has been.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#932

Post by hallway_monitor »

berkes wrote: post #901
frankvdwaal wrote: post #882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's the builders of the consent notifications who are responsible for that. They are often skirting or even breaking EU law to make it a headache to refuse. The GDPR says, for example, that refusal should be just as easy as acceptance. Having to click to another screen to do that is... not that. In reality a cookie consent notification can just as well be a small widget somewhere with an accept and refuse button…

Also, and too often overlooked or silently ignored: You don't need cookie popups! Really. You don't. You only need to get consent to track users with software you don't run yourself. Or when you sell your data off to other companies. Both are, unfortunately, the norm. But there's absolutely no technical reason to have these in place. Non at all. Plenty of alternatives for tracking that doesn't need consent. Or just n…

Thank you for this accurate analogy. Similar to what if the post office delivered all your mail for free but they also opened it and read it in order to send you advertising.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#933

Post by berkes »

somat wrote: post #489

The whole app ecosystem(android and apple) is carefully constructed for maximum market owner value extraction, user value is a secondary consideration. Basically, it is what the web would look like if it were developed by corporate interests, conversely "apps" could have been a better designed web[1], but instead are this comparatively clunky gated process where you have to explicitly install the app first only then…

> The web was designed to deliver pages, this was well designed

It was well designed, using Hypermedia. Which works extremely well for hyperlinks and forms. Instead of leveraging and improving these primitives, corporates¹ and web-devs threw it all out and re-invented it. Multiple times².

¹ The worst offenders obviously being those that have held back web-apps just so they can extract more money from native apps. i.e. Apple.

² jQuery, then Angular et. al. Then react. Now WASM. In which we throw all all the REST concepts and push a mongrel data format, JSON, over the web. When we had XML with strong typing, meaning, hypermedia, permissions, etc. We have - by now- reinvented all these on top of JSON, but worse and poorer. And, finally we are full circle back to HTMX. How often will web-devs keep re-inventing wheels? Why can't we see that problems have been solved since early '00s and that improving these is also possible?

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#934

Post by berkes »

endisneigh wrote: post #757
somat wrote: post #489

The whole app ecosystem(android and apple) is carefully constructed for maximum market owner value extraction, user value is a secondary consideration. Basically, it is what the web would look like if it were developed by corporate interests, conversely "apps" could have been a better designed web[1], but instead are this comparatively clunky gated process where you have to explicitly install the app first only then…

There’s literally nothing stopping someone from distributing their app as a web app, and no PWA isn’t necessary for distribution.

> There’s literally nothing stopping

There's literally apple stopping that.

By limiting APIs, by removing the ability to treat them as other apps (home screen icons), by blocking apps that are hybrids etc.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#935

Post by criddell »

smoldesu wrote: post #494
criddell wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wanted to be able to do this on video game consoles for ages. I have a powerful computer with a big screen in my living room but I'm locked out of it. I hope once the EU starts to look at Sony and Nintendo next.

Knock yourself out: https://github.com/Atmosphere-NX/Atmosphere The Nintendo Switch is a great console for sideloading. There are numerous ports of PC titles like Quake and Half-Life, as well as a library of Homebrew games and modding tools. If you've got an original Nintendo Switch there's practically no excuse not to crack it, unless you intend to play online. Same goes for the 3DS, too. You can now play Virtual Bo…

I want access to the developer program like you get with Apple for $100 / year. I want sanctioned and supported third party app stores. Direct download would be cool as well.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#936

Post by HDThoreaun »

gxs wrote: post #792
endisneigh wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m very curious how you have this position yet have a MacBook. Why not support a better company like framework?

Because people are incredibly entitled and want to have their cake and eat it too. So you bought an iPhone knowing you can’t download apps and then go cry because you can’t download apps? Then your argument is that well, all my friends have iPhones or there are some other good features, or whatever else you make up? So you obviously find value in the product, it’s missing a feature, but you will consciously buy it an…

> So you bought an iPhone knowing you can’t download apps

I didnt know that when I entered the apple ecosystem. Can I have a refund for all the apps Ive bought on my phone?

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#937

Post by HDThoreaun »

klaustopher wrote: post #13

I am really impressed how much time and effort Apples legal department spends to find every single loop hole in the wording of the DMA. The 50ct per install for alternate app stores, 50ct per install for non-App Store apps after the millionth install, 1 million dollar in securities for alternate app stores, etc all follow the words of the DMA, but not the spirit. I am really interested to see the European Commissian…

Theres literally billions of dollars of pure profit on the line here. Id be surprised if they dint do absolutely everything they could to keep the app store the way it is.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#938

Post by xgl5k »

bimguy wrote: post #869
docmars wrote: post #750

Oh the horror, it must be so hard for Apple to cave to an open system for these people. What will they ever do without their unbelievable tax on app profits simply for existing on their nearly unlimited real estate, that is, the web?! I have no sympathy for their concerns. I can download apps on my MacBook machines all day from many different sources, and it harms no one. While I understand the associated risks, comp…

You are not a big fan of the EU after this? They seem to care more about privacy and rights of the people within the majority of the countries that make up the EU then any other outside country that I could name. Then again, I'm not American so I can easily see the influence your country has on most other countries, so to say the "EU have enormous capacity for overreach at the expense of participating countries and t…

The EU is not exactly doing this exclusively for privacy. This is a geopolitical ploy to thwart America's dominance in Tech, as a cope for not being able to produce any homegrown rivals to America's tech giants.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#939

Post by xgl5k »

xwolfi wrote: post #833
docmars wrote: post #750

Oh the horror, it must be so hard for Apple to cave to an open system for these people. What will they ever do without their unbelievable tax on app profits simply for existing on their nearly unlimited real estate, that is, the web?! I have no sympathy for their concerns. I can download apps on my MacBook machines all day from many different sources, and it harms no one. While I understand the associated risks, comp…

Why are you no big fan of the EU ?

This is a geopolitical ploy to thwart America's dominance in Tech, as a cope for not being able to produce any homegrown rivals to America's tech giants.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#940

Post by JKCalhoun »

docmars wrote: post #750

Oh the horror, it must be so hard for Apple to cave to an open system for these people. What will they ever do without their unbelievable tax on app profits simply for existing on their nearly unlimited real estate, that is, the web?! I have no sympathy for their concerns. I can download apps on my MacBook machines all day from many different sources, and it harms no one. While I understand the associated risks, comp…

I'll go further in one regard: the App Store in fact hurts Apple because it has caused a kind of filtering of apps down to those that are the sleaziest.

I used to enjoy exploring the App Store — I resent it now. I'll download half a dozen apps only to delete them within minutes of launching them because of their rent-ware attitude or just plain shitty functionality.

Post reply on HN