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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#931

Post by YetAnotherNick »

bick_nyers wrote: post #858
cdot2 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In both cases it's a cost/finance reason. "Smart" TVs can profit from selling customer data and touch screen cars save some cost over tactile interfaces.

Everyone always says this, but how much do they actually make per unit sale. I buy $2k+ TVs, are they making $50 off of my data, or $5? Does it even pay for the department they hired to write the software that collects the data?

Same for car. It's hard to imagine manufacturers would care to reduce cost by $5(20 tactile buttons likely costs lesser than that) on a $10k car, but what would I know.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#932

Post by P_I_Staker »

sircastor wrote: post #229
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

> because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." I used to be an infotainment software engineer for an Auto maker. There’s this idea in the software industry that because the software behaves poorly on your car’s system, it must’ve been written poorly by someone who didn’t know what they were doing. In my experience it was almost always a matter of the hardware being stretched way past its limits.…

Yeah this is nonsense. If not for hardware considerations, probably some bureaucratic nonesense. Disputes between teams, or suppliers*, something fell through the cracks because it was nobody's problem; stuff like that.

Probably not because they lack 10x l33t coding skills, and have fat fingers.

* I'm not sure if people realize that many automotive dev teams are buying enormous stacks of software from outside parties that often have motivation to throw you under the bus... if it's not an external supplier, it's probably another team on a different continent... but maybe it's different in infotainment?

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#933

Post by emodendroket »

bomewish wrote: post #468
emodendroket wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think jail time for making software too bloated and slow for your liking is a serious proposal.

You don't find the idea both kinda hilarious and somehow vaguely appealing even though it's a bit nonserious at the same time? I love it as a thought experiment.

Ideas that are silly thought experiments have a way of actually getting implemented once too many people start paying attention to them.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#934

Post by CatWChainsaw »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #483
riverdweller wrote: post #454

Tesla unilaterally decided to push out a refactored UI to my old Model S a few months ago, changing the location of numerous functions to new sub-menu paths, and rendering years of muscle memory useless. Not only do I have to re-learn where everything is, but older memories interfere and confuse every time I try to access an infrequently used function. This experience has been irritating at best. It has felt extremel…

The phone and desktop OS user experience has now infected cars. "We must change things otherwise our work is not visible."

IMO, if their work is visible, they did it wrong.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#935

Post by sundvor »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #856
berkes wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> driveway deaths involving little children, This leaves me with so many questions: * Why is this not an (actively discussed) issue in the EU? * Does this issue exist in other countries than the US? * If the problem is real, is a camera the only, or even best solution?

The reason actually ties into another US problem - the proliferation of very large SUVs, Crossovers and Pickups. These gigantic cars have a significant problem seeing things close to them, especially if they're small like little kids. This is why backup cameras are so crucial in the US, but not nearly as much in other countries. Those huge cars need them for safety. For smaller cars (sedans, coups, hatchbacks) the be…

There's still too many involving normal sedans, at least in Australia. And modern sedans are sacrificing visibility for aerodynamics / fuel efficiency. So having them being blanket mandatory is the only sane thing.

They are still not a guarantee against these incidents, I personally added backup sensors to my previous car - a Subaru Outback. They saved me from reversing into another car that had kind of snuck up on me once.

The Tesla Model 3 (Ryzen '22 w/radar edition) is far, far superior in all aspects of safety when reversing now. Both a huge responsive massive FOV screen with side displays and the ultrasonic sensors beeping.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#936

Post by WirelessGigabit »

acapybara wrote: post #647
jjav wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

Our Subaru has a physical volume knob. Its position is only a "gentle suggestion" to the software to move volume up or down. At times, especially when starting the vehicle, there is major latency in the software processing the knob movement.. Also, if the knob is moved too fast, the sw gets the wrong reading. This results in volume being way too high for serveral seconds as well as many other frustrating, dangerous s…

On my BMW if I move the volume knob 180 degrees to the right spread out over 10 seconds it will increment it by x.

If I do the same movement but in 1 second it'll only move up the volume by x/y where y > 2.

That doesn't explain the initial latency. It's probably being posted to a queue which no-one is handling.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#937

Post by wolverine876 »

manchmalscott wrote: post #85
wolverine876 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many buttons is a problem, but how about a few physical buttons whose labels are screens (high-res LCD, e-ink, whatever) and change according to the mode.

The issue is needing to look away from the road. If I don’t know what the button will do right now because it arbitrarily changes, that’s just as much of a problem.

Good point. I suppose each mode could be color-coded, so the driver might identify the mode and function in their peripheral vision, or at least notice that the mode changed.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#938

Post by wolrah »

neuralRiot wrote: post #928
wolrah wrote: post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess that's what we get when a rotary encoder is much much less expensive than a 4-6 gang potentiometer. Also a rotary encoder doesn't age in the same way as a potentiometer. A potentiometer can wear out the area being used most heavily while simultaneously developing oxidation on the areas not being used. Eventually this leads to crackling, dead areas on the dial, and other misbehavior. A rotary encoder on the…

Rotary encoders do fail, they produce the effect of control being unresponsive or “reversed”

Yes, but they don't really "wear out" to get that way, just some debris ends up blocking either the sensor itself or some amount of the openings in the wheel. It's a random event rather than an inherent result of age or wear. It's also often possible to fix simply by cleaning the debris out. Unless it's been physically damaged it's unlikely to need replacement.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#939

Post by scotteric »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #919
Rediscover wrote: post #793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun story: My ex (one of my best friends), born and raised in Seattle, used to give me serious grief anytime I mention rain in Boston or NYC. She had no belief in what I would describe. Work finally ships her out to (NYC). She calls me up to say she just ran ~2meters from the hotel to the taxi and is soaking wet. She has never commented on Seattle "rain" since. REAL rain.

I'm from north-west Scotland. Many years ago we had a guy working for us who was sent over from our company's parent company in Southern Cali. He was not keen on going out in the rain at all, and was absolutely terrified that we still drove at 60mph when it was raining. "But what if you skid? It's raining!" he'd wail. He'd never driven in rain. He just did not take well to a Scottish January, especially the bit where…

When it rains after being dry for some time an oil layer forms on top of the water. This is why he is afraid of skidding. In Southern California, where it is very dry there can be very substantial oil buildup.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#940

Post by WirelessGigabit »

hasmolo wrote: post #661
acapybara wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our Subaru has a physical volume knob. Its position is only a "gentle suggestion" to the software to move volume up or down. At times, especially when starting the vehicle, there is major latency in the software processing the knob movement.. Also, if the knob is moved too fast, the sw gets the wrong reading. This results in volume being way too high for serveral seconds as well as many other frustrating, dangerous s…

i'm dropping my subaru for this among other reasons. 1. throttle response, move your foot to 20% and experience between no throttle and wide open as the 'turbos' kick in in my outback 2. every time we get near an intersection with bollards, it thinks it's a kid and slams on the brakes 3. you're not allowed to persist auto start disabling 4. you will be nagged for looking anywhere other than dead straight, especially…

1. Subaru's engines are notorious for being low powered. A 2.0 with 152hp and a 2.5 with 182hp? That's... NOTHING. Even with turbos that is shamefully low. Pair that with a slow-acting CVT and you have a recipe for disaster.

I do wonder if the mapping of the pedal is direct. Because one can do it in 2 ways: First one being: putting your foot down 20% means open up the air intake valve and derive fuel requested from that. Or 20% is give me 20% engine power, which then can actually continuously remap what that means in terms of how much we open up the air intake valve and how much fuel we inject as the turbos spin up.

3. I have never seen a car that allows you to do it as the user. I program it in my BMW.

5. If the car is new enough I'd start the lemon process.

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