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Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

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Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#931
post #845

I come from Ciudad Juarez. Between 2008-2011, the city was the murder capital in the world and basically unlivable. My brother and I were no longer living there because we were in college. My parents decided to send my sister, then starting highschool, to a city in central Mexico with friends of the family to avoid having her grow up in what was a life and death environment. My parents stayed. Mexicans speak a lot ab…

Broken windows theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

Is probably a fallacy of correlation being tied to causation.

> The policy targeted people in areas with a significant amount of physical disorder and there appeared to be a causal relationship between the adoption of broken windows policing and the decrease in crime rate. Sridhar, however, discusses other trends (such as New York City's economic boom in the late 1990s) that created a "perfect storm" that contributed to the decrease of crime rate much more significantly than the application of the broken windows policy. Sridhar also compares this decrease of crime rate with other major cities that adopted other various policies and determined that the broken windows policy is not as effective.

> In a 2007 study called "Reefer Madness" in the journal Criminology and Public Policy, Harcourt and Ludwig found further evidence confirming that mean reversion fully explained the changes in crime rates in the different precincts in New York in the 1990s.[38] Further alternative explanations that have been put forward include the waning of the crack epidemic,[39] unrelated growth in the prison population by the Rockefeller drug laws,[39] and that the number of males from 16 to 24 was dropping regardless of the shape of the US population pyramid.

As always, the wikipedia article is a good place to start to look into further sources: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

It's time to let "broken window theory," and bloodthirsty, punitive "justice" strategies, die.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#932

I come from Ciudad Juarez. Between 2008-2011, the city was the murder capital in the world and basically unlivable. My brother and I were no longer living there because we were in college. My parents decided to send my sister, then starting highschool, to a city in central Mexico with friends of the family to avoid having her grow up in what was a life and death environment. My parents stayed. Mexicans speak a lot ab…

What boggled my mind about Mexico is how some states are EXCEPTIONALLY safe, while others are EXCEPTIONALLY dangerous. Most folks tend to presume all of Mexico is dangerous.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#933
post #671

Speaking as an immigrant - Worked in SF most of last decade. Left in 2018. Crime was on a steady uptick while I was there. Once in the Bart, a young man grabbed a cellphone from the guy seated right next to me & bolted out of the train. The train started, and the cellphone owner gave chase. The Bart police arrived soon after, with guns pointed straight at the passengers. The robber was fast and jumped over the turnst…

I'm born and raised Midwest. I've lived in smaller cities and have absolutely zero desire to go back to that environment. Midwest living is one of the best kept secrets in the US, even though the secret is definitely out now. I make coastal money - it can be done although it takes some negotiating skills.

did you mean "larger cities"?

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#934

I come from Ciudad Juarez. Between 2008-2011, the city was the murder capital in the world and basically unlivable. My brother and I were no longer living there because we were in college. My parents decided to send my sister, then starting highschool, to a city in central Mexico with friends of the family to avoid having her grow up in what was a life and death environment. My parents stayed. Mexicans speak a lot ab…

I'm American born, but grew up in a high crime area. Something that most Americans who grew up in very safe environments don't understand is that once order begins to decay, it accelerates exponentially. Growing up in highly orderly, safe environments, they completely take order for granted. This leads to them supporting policies that prioritize other things far above order, which basically describes San Francisco's childish, utopian politics for the last 20 years. The SF City Council sounds like a bunch of stoners in Che Guevara t-shirts hanging out in a dorm-room, instead of thoughtful policy makers.

I lived in SF for a year (in Nob Hill) in my early 20s living with my then GF, back in 2002-2003. It was a beautiful, safe, just chill place then. It's disgusting now. I was there in 2019, and one of the things that jumped out at me was how I constantly smelled piss and a big portion of the city looked the way only the Tenderloin used to. And yes, it's the fault of the SF politicians.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#935

I come from Ciudad Juarez. Between 2008-2011, the city was the murder capital in the world and basically unlivable. My brother and I were no longer living there because we were in college. My parents decided to send my sister, then starting highschool, to a city in central Mexico with friends of the family to avoid having her grow up in what was a life and death environment. My parents stayed. Mexicans speak a lot ab…

San Francisco has been ceding its monopoly of violence for years if not decades. Trends suggest otherwise: https://www.ppic.org/publication/crime-trends-in-california/ The big peak in violent crime in the 1990s is the crack epidemic. I personally saw driveby shooting attacks and personal murders in broad daylight; 24th street (and the Mission in general) used to be considered a no-go area by folk in better-off neighb…

> It seems to me that the basic problem in SF is wealth disparity.

Really?

> police budgets have gone up rather than down.

And what do you think the police are supposed to do when the prosecutions by the DA fall off a cliff? Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, if the number of cops remains unchanged, but the percentage of criminals they detain being arraigned/charged/arrested drops, that maybe, just maybe, crime will go up?

The cognitive dissonance is just unbelievable here.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#936
post #671

Speaking as an immigrant - Worked in SF most of last decade. Left in 2018. Crime was on a steady uptick while I was there. Once in the Bart, a young man grabbed a cellphone from the guy seated right next to me & bolted out of the train. The train started, and the cellphone owner gave chase. The Bart police arrived soon after, with guns pointed straight at the passengers. The robber was fast and jumped over the turnst…

> So for a whole 3 days, the garage was wide open & anybody could have walked in & grabbed whatever. Nothing was taken. On the contrary there was a nice note from the neighbor about applying grease on the railing so the garage door stays closed. Everyone seems to be missing a piece of critical non-political information. One setting is rural, everyone owns the house, lives there long-term, everyone knows neighbours. Y…

SF was always unequal. I lived there in 2002-2003 for a year. There was a ton of inequality. The crime is out of control NOW for obvious reasons that conflict with your prior beliefs, so you embrace this silly theory of "if people had more free/cheap stuff they'd be nicer".

Massively reducing prosecutions causes police to stop arresting people since they get released without being charged. This changes the incentive structure for criminals. They get more aggressive, more brazen, and they tell their friends. This isn't complicated.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#937

I come from Ciudad Juarez. Between 2008-2011, the city was the murder capital in the world and basically unlivable. My brother and I were no longer living there because we were in college. My parents decided to send my sister, then starting highschool, to a city in central Mexico with friends of the family to avoid having her grow up in what was a life and death environment. My parents stayed. Mexicans speak a lot ab…

>> The most basic definition and purpose of the state is to hold the monopoly of violence. It must jealously protect this. The alternative is unsustainable anarchy followed by someone else filling that void.

Can we re-phrase "monopoly of violence" to maintaining the rule of law. The government has an obligation to maintain the rule of law. Monopoly on violence by itself does not provide real legitimacy.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#938

Could someone please enlighten me on why we don't treat governing like we do software solutions? When I'm given a task to complete, my first instinct is to find where other developers have done what I'm asked to do and then utilize their wisdom into my own solution which will likely look very similar to theirs. Why do we see such drastically different approaches to solving issues in society and government? Want bette…

Crime is a for profit business for the perpetrators, politicians, and law enforcement, and the only victims are, well, the victims. There isn't much profit in peace.

Didn't SF's mayor's brother murder someone?

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#939

Could someone please enlighten me on why we don't treat governing like we do software solutions? When I'm given a task to complete, my first instinct is to find where other developers have done what I'm asked to do and then utilize their wisdom into my own solution which will likely look very similar to theirs. Why do we see such drastically different approaches to solving issues in society and government? Want bette…

Which city should San Francisco look to to solve all of its problems? Fwiw, "governance" does exactly that. Many states literally copy, or copy-then-tweak California law (e.g. motor vehicle efficiency requirements).

Tokyo, Singapore, heck maybe even Dallas.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#940
post #671

Speaking as an immigrant - Worked in SF most of last decade. Left in 2018. Crime was on a steady uptick while I was there. Once in the Bart, a young man grabbed a cellphone from the guy seated right next to me & bolted out of the train. The train started, and the cellphone owner gave chase. The Bart police arrived soon after, with guns pointed straight at the passengers. The robber was fast and jumped over the turnst…

> The left wanted to integrate the youth into the tech community by offering free coding classes so they wouldn't rob cellphones. The left-left argued for free iphones for everybody. I was like, hey how about catching the robber & some jailtime For what it’s worth, these are solving two different problems. The reported train discussion was a disagreement on a solution to the systemic problem. Jailing the perpetrator…

Jailing the perpetrator also warns other potential perpetrators that they might also be jailed if they perpetrate the same crime.
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