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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#931

Post by itsoktocry »

boringg wrote: post #598
cogman10 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

Executive hospital pay is ridiculous AND the executives are often times just some MBA type without any real value add. How about you chop up their comp between the nurses - would be a start. Nurses are the lifeblood of the hospitals for anyone who has had the unfortunate circumstances of having to spend any time there.

>Executive hospital pay is ridiculous AND the executives are often times just some MBA type without any real value add.

I can agree that executive compensation is exorbitant, but do not agree that "MBA types" (what does that even mean?) have no value add. There's nothing inherent with being in the health care industry that translates directly into administering a (large) business. Why would you think doctors or nurses would be good at that?

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#932

Post by [deleted] »

atoav wrote: post #892
hackernewds wrote: post #867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these conditions have always existed. But I can't imagine 90% have wanted to quit in the last decade. The most important factor thus is most likely COVID

Like with many jobs Covid revealed what society truly values and what not. Sure clapping for nurses, nice. But these people should have propper working conditions and wages, otherwise nobody will want to do the job. Covid just gave the realization that even if we face a global crisis where nurses are dying on the front, the rest of society is not willing to provide the bare minimum these people deserve.

[deleted]

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#933

Post by manmal »

solenoidalslide wrote: post #679
pmulard wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Travel nurses serve a need, like if another nurse gets injured or has a child, and they will need to be temporarily replaced.

Shouldn't travel positions exist for every other profession? The reason why it's expected for nursing in particular is the indicator that something here is very wrong.

It’s an indicator for very small room for error when it comes to utilization.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#934

Post by stevehawk »

germinalphrase wrote: post #547
whimsicalism wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The entire purpose of this organization was to provide pediatric healthcare, and it wasn’t losing money… If it's entire purpose was to provide pediatric healthcare it should probably have registered itself as a not-for-profit.

Why register as a not-for-profit when you’re profitable?

nothing about being not-for-profit means you can't make a profit. it just means you don't return those earnings to the shareholders and thus find yourself governed by those shareholders.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#935

Post by rybosome »

whimsicalism wrote: post #641
rurp wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just had a candidate openly try to steal the last presidential election and face no real consequences as a result. In fact, it likely strengthened his position. 10 years ago I would have thought the end of American democracy was extremely unlikely, now though we're only a few small steps away and that bridge could be crossed at any point. This isn't some outlier event either, democracy has been receding around the…

I don't think we were even remotely close to somehow Trump remaining on as president. > democracy has been receding around the world for years I am skeptical. Majoritarian democracy in the US has only really existed for 40-50 years and I perceive it as continuing to expand both here and abroad.

That’s pretty naive to think Trump wasn’t even close to remaining on.

If enough states had sent contested election results (eg a county or state’s election board is tied in approval or does not approve the results because of one die-hard) then the matter would have gone to the house of reps.

How many of those reps voted not to certify the election results? Now, in the event of contested state results, each state in the house of reps would get one vote. There’s more red states than blue states…how many unscrupulous representatives, who already voted not to certify the results, would it have taken to grant Trump the election?

For what it’s worth, many of the key states in the election had narrowly certified election results. In some cases it came down to a single individual who could have flipped the other way, and the results would have been contested.

You do not realize what a narrow path democracy treads. The anti-democratic forces do understand this, and the last few years have been empowering to them.

And that’s an easy scenario that doesn’t even take into account the very real possibility of political violence - don’t forget that people showed up to the US capitol with weapons and tools for kidnapping.

Honestly I find your take to be either naivety, denial, or willfully obscuring the truth to promote anti-democratic goals.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#936

Post by mumblemumble »

hahajk wrote: post #839
oliverafajardo wrote: post #700

My experience: I'm an icu nurse in the sf bay area. I make a good salary. However, you can make this and more with a job with less physical and emotional stress/abuse. Even the "best" hospitals like kaiser/stanford/ucsf are always short staffed. I considered another area of nursing/hc but it's really all the same BS of being short staffed, constantly being denied vacations, etc. I feel like a waitress, custodian, soc…

On the plus side, if you are successful switching to software development, having a background as a practicing nurse will allow you to pretty much write your own paycheck if you’re willing to work in medical software.

So true.

And yet, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13859961

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#937

Post by Gareth321 »

ChainReaktion wrote: post #869
cogman10 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

I think this gets it a bit backwards. There has been a shortage of nurses for decades, and it’s getting worse. This is exacerbated by an aging population and restrictive immigration policies. Travel/agency nurses were supposed to be load balancers for a system with variable demand for labor, but for a variety of structural reasons agencies began to pay nurses more. This has prompted a landslide of nurses moving into…

>This is exacerbated by an aging population and restrictive immigration policies.

Sans the covid anomaly, immigration has never been higher in Western nations. The issue isn't restrictive migration. It's that we're not treating nurses well. That means fewer people pick this career, and more nurses leave prematurely. Suggesting that we need to import more nurses is only admitting that migrant nurses are willing to work for worse pay and worse working conditions, and I don't think that's fair to anyone.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#938

Post by hn_version_0023 »

erddfre3423 wrote: post #918
shaky-carrousel wrote: post #914

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pillars of society are police, healthcare workers, and teachers. Except in America, where the pillars are, according to salaries, CEOs.

Not just America but pretty much everywhere. I'm Finnish, and when I read about problems of American nurses it all seems pretty much identical to what is going on in my country, except maybe for some legal problems. Low pay, angry patients, lack of resources and bad IT seem universal.

The universal part is human greed, and I’m just not sure if we’re going to survive long enough to get over that.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#939

Post by bshep »

hansel_der wrote: post #902
bshep wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In relation to #5 we had to drop pay by ~6-7% due to medicare cuts in 2021. Me and my MDs salaries are paid directly from medicare ( and other insurance companies who peg their compensation to the medicare rates ) so we have no choice but to drop salaries or close up shop. With the inflation numbers this year I have no idea what we are going to do, since we are already 6-7% in the hole from the 2021 cuts and now infl…

> we have no choice but to drop salaries or close up shop there's bound to be at least a third option and the fact that you ignored it is part of the problem.

There are no other source of income other than insurance plans, so if they decrease rates we have no choice but to decrease pay.

Im not sure where you are getting the ‘you ignored it’ comment, when the new rates were announced we adjusted pay according to the decrease in rates.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#940

Post by boringg »

itsoktocry wrote: post #931
boringg wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Executive hospital pay is ridiculous AND the executives are often times just some MBA type without any real value add. How about you chop up their comp between the nurses - would be a start. Nurses are the lifeblood of the hospitals for anyone who has had the unfortunate circumstances of having to spend any time there.

> Executive hospital pay is ridiculous AND the executives are often times just some MBA type without any real value add. I can agree that executive compensation is exorbitant, but do not agree that "MBA types" (what does that even mean?) have no value add. There's nothing inherent with being in the health care industry that translates directly into administering a (large) business. Why would you think doctors or nurs…

The administrative side typically doesn't actually understand the technicality of administrating care and many times are MBA business types who administer a business as if its is commodity without understanding the true nature of the business (from their overconfidence generated from their degree and their lack of understanding the nature of the problems through distillation and non-technical understanding). This MBA culture is similar to tech/prod relationship in tech companies. Thus they provide little value add and get paid unfair amounts for their relative value.

I agree that Doctors and Nurses would likely be poor administrators - however the disparity in income is incomprehensible in healthcare.

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