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Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

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Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#931

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very happy for you guys. But do take this as a shot across the bow, if and when it serves Google's agenda to shut you down they will. You have a great service, don't let Google control you and be beholden to them.

We have put all of our eggs in the iOS and Android basket. It looks like this year we’ll see a few Linux phone come to market... can’t come soon enough

While it’s old now, the Nokia N9 proved to me a long time ago that the Linux phone idea has true merit. Harmattan was a brilliant UI!

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#932

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There needs to be regulatory oversight of the Google/Apple app stores The regularity oversight needs to address a different aspect: google is world-wide de-facto monopoly for people not owning an iPhone. At least for the most part of the freer world, China is different story. Until Google is broken up or fair competition is not achieved, content regulation does not help. As a European I want to care about US regula…

This principle should be applied to all sectors. Basically capitalism is still young and we didn't have situations in the past were small companies could consolidate indefinitely so that they can at some point get so big they have more money than some countries. I think there should be a cap that beyond certain point company will have to be divided, so we never get companies too big to fail and being able to afford b…

I’m somewhat certain that the east India company, the VOC etc., had wealth surpassing many countries by the time their consolidation activities reached their peak, though. This isn’t a new phenomenon I don’t think.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#933
post #3

So we got notified by the developer console at 21:45 UTC that the app had been suspended, but still haven’t had an email to explain why - it’s 02:24 now. Our assumption that this is due to someone reporting abusive content in Matrix to Google, and Element catching the blame — although this is currently speculation. To be clear: Element is a Matrix client just as Chrome is a Web browser, and just as it’s possible to v…

UPDATE: I just got a call from a VP at Google who apologised for the bad communication around this and explained the situation, which related to some extremely abusive content which was accessible on the default matrix.org homeserver. We don't want to go into specifics, but suffice it to say that it's not related to WallStreet Bets or anything like that, but instead is the sort of thing that causes you to get locked…

Why the lack of transparency about exactly what content triggered this response?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#934

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dendrite is okay for personal use (a few users), matrix-native, using the better-tested clients. IIRC some bridges work with it, but it doesn't implement the whole appservice API, which blocks you from using some of the better bridges. I do not recommend synapse if you don't have a lot of memory. I put an extra 8 GB stick in my server for it, bringing it to 14 GB. It routinely likes to take more than 4GB to itself, t…

Sadly 4GB is all I have. On the other hand, I was expecting the bridges to me more like Bitlbee which maps personal accounts to IRC rooms. Matrix bridges seem to be more like syncing the content of a room to another.

There are multiple kind of bridges in Matrix: https://matrix.org/docs/guides/types-of-bridging

It sounds like you'd want puppet bridges. Each of your conversations on the remote side has a corresponding room, and what you say in that room is forwarded by the bridge trough your remote account.

You could try out dendrite.matrix.org as a homeserver (btw, dendrite would nicely fit into these 4GB). Most bridges need admin access to the server though, if you want to host them yourself. t2bot.io hosts a few you'd be able to use with your own dendrite, though it hits capacity problems at times.

Finally, you could try to make synapse leaner by not joining big rooms with hundreds of federating servers. There is a max_complexity (something like it) setting for that use case.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#935

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for the love of God, people should stop calling Signal secure as long as it is tied to a phone number. You cannot get a SIM card in my country without not having it tied to your ID card number, address, and so forth. You are not anonymous on Signal.

> people should stop calling Signal secure as long as it is tied to a phone number. Like nearly everything, "secure" is a spectrum and not binary. On that spectrum, Signal is overwhelmingly more secure than most messenger apps people actually use.

You are right, although as long as it is tied to me, it is not secure according to my definition, but sure, it is more secure than most instant messaging apps. I do not think it is a good thing to have my phone number, or even my e-mail tied to it when you can easily do it in another way. With e-mails the problem is that most have a thing against throwaway e-mails, and non-throwaway ones are difficult to sign up for using a VPN, let alone Tor, for example. It is still pretty much tied to you. There are so many ways to do it without using either of those. I suppose they may use those things as an anti-spam mechanism or something, but see below for an instant messaging app that does not require these and where DDoS attacks or spamming is not much of a concern. For the record, in Ricochet you got random IDs in the form of "ricochet:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx". You share your Ricochet ID to be able to get a connection request.

To me, Ricochet is the most secure instant messaging app for desktop. It would be even better were it to use Onion v3, and if it were available on Android, but then again, I do not really consider my phone secure by default with all the Google crapware. I disabled the default Google keyboard and downloaded one that does not require Internet connection and that is not related to Google in any way. It is so silly that I cannot even delete any apps that came with my phone. So they say its storage capacity is 32 GB. Half of that is spent on crap that came with the phone, splendid. In any case, I am going off-topic here so... :)

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#936
post #3

So we got notified by the developer console at 21:45 UTC that the app had been suspended, but still haven’t had an email to explain why - it’s 02:24 now. Our assumption that this is due to someone reporting abusive content in Matrix to Google, and Element catching the blame — although this is currently speculation. To be clear: Element is a Matrix client just as Chrome is a Web browser, and just as it’s possible to v…

UPDATE: I just got a call from a VP at Google who apologised for the bad communication around this and explained the situation, which related to some extremely abusive content which was accessible on the default matrix.org homeserver. We don't want to go into specifics, but suffice it to say that it's not related to WallStreet Bets or anything like that, but instead is the sort of thing that causes you to get locked…

Challenges - like this google fiasco - really test the merit of a person and org...and you @Arathorn and the rest of the Element team as well as the Matrix org/Foundation team have shown to be really great stewards and leaders for Matrix, as well as great actors for open source and internet-at-large software. Kudos to you and the teams for the great job at managing this challenge (that never should have been created by Google in the first place)!! I've been a fanboy of matrix since the beginning (both the protocol and the teams building it), and it is behavior like yours and the related teams (incljuding all contributors!) that keep me as a fanboy for both the protocol stack and the software. Keep on truckin'!!! :-)

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#937
post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does any source code exist then? What is the point of GitHub with codebases that are 7+ years old? Would mass adoption of the outdated server force updates or god forbid a fork of the code base? Please excuse me for being direct, I do not accept your defeatist attitude on this one. You won’t have stickers, such a shame, but you would have the ability to create your own signal service

If Signal was the only alternative to have an internal messaging tool, sure, it would make sense to invest time and money on it to keep it up. But it doesn't. There are options. If I had to choose, I would rather invest this time and money to collaborate on the existing protocols that do have the goal of being fully open. Matrix and XMPP can do the things that I want and there are plenty of people working on them to…

Because the signal client is very straightforward and easy to use. You gonna teach your grandma how to connect to a mumble or matrix server?

I know you are a nerd but your users are not.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#938

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This principle should be applied to all sectors. Basically capitalism is still young and we didn't have situations in the past were small companies could consolidate indefinitely so that they can at some point get so big they have more money than some countries. I think there should be a cap that beyond certain point company will have to be divided, so we never get companies too big to fail and being able to afford b…

I’m somewhat certain that the east India company, the VOC etc., had wealth surpassing many countries by the time their consolidation activities reached their peak, though. This isn’t a new phenomenon I don’t think.

Yeah, but those companies were de facto monopolies created by their governments. When they no longer served their purposes, those governments stepped in, defanged them, and took over their operations. Those companies may have been larger in terms of net worth, but their relationship to government was fundamentally different.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#939
post #928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I can visit sites and do things in chrome that will get me locked up for life as well yet it's still on my phone.

But can you host content with chrome that will get you locked up for life? Because that's the issue here: the official default home server was serving that content. Now, yeah, decentralization but apparently the people handling abuse reports of stuff in the play store don't know what this means, hence GP saying they explained what decentralization is and the relation between Element (open source project) and Matrix.o…

I think this is the problem, if you treat every client as a host it becomes the client’s responsibility to police the host which is wrong.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly 4GB is all I have. On the other hand, I was expecting the bridges to me more like Bitlbee which maps personal accounts to IRC rooms. Matrix bridges seem to be more like syncing the content of a room to another.

There are multiple kind of bridges in Matrix: https://matrix.org/docs/guides/types-of-bridging It sounds like you'd want puppet bridges. Each of your conversations on the remote side has a corresponding room, and what you say in that room is forwarded by the bridge trough your remote account. You could try out dendrite.matrix.org as a homeserver (btw, dendrite would nicely fit into these 4GB). Most bridges need admin…

> t2bot.io hosts a few you'd be able to use with your own dendrite

I meant with dendrite.matrix.org. I suggest anyone with their own server should self-host their bridges, for performance and privacy/security.

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