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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#931

Post by agd »

a254613e wrote: post #869
agd wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It is possible, but difficult. You may lose access to some groups, but you can't have everything you want without some sacrifice. Personally, I'm leaving WhatsApp. Yes, my family and friends will be a bit annoyed about the hassle of contacting me separately, but so be it.

That sort of behavior is very selfish, wouldn't you agree? You expect everyone to be annoyed and go through the hassle of contacting you, when you can't even keep one app installed to communicate with all of them. And in a lot of countries you wouldn't lose access to "some groups" but you would lose access to ALL of them, from social, to every other group.

You could easily flip it around. Why should others expect me to sacrifice my privacy to socialise with them?

For me, ditching WhatsApp is altruistic, helping make it easier for others to socialise without giving up their privacy and security.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#932

Post by seniorivn »

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

no they don't need to be treated like anything, they are completely new thing, so if you think that their dominant market position is an issue, they can be forced to implement public api(open standart), therefore unlocking their userbase and allowing infinite competition

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#933

Post by FalconSensei »

tomp wrote: post #710
rusk wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it even with click thru agreement like this it is still illegal in the EU. Could be an interesting case on the way... I believe that WhatsApp only real option in this case is to stop serving the EU, which I feel as an EU residents could only be a good thing!

Who cares if it's "technically illegal" if there's no fines for it. I seriously doubt that the EU will grow teeth anytime soon (but I hope to be surprised!).

In practice, everything that doesn't have a punishment is legal

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#934

Post by hyko »

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

faced with the option of accepting or being cut off from their local community.

It’s a deal!

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#935

Post by FalconSensei »

AntiqueFig wrote: post #769
Hermel wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be enough to use many different messaging apps in parallel. This enabled competition and a smooth transition between them. For example, I tend to slowly move from WhatsApp to Telegram as more new groups I join are created in Telegram while old groups in WhatsApp tend to get abandoned. Also, I often access these groups through opera via their API and not the native apps. This is a natural development in a mar…

Isn't Signal better than Telegram?

Better in which terms? UX/Usability? Privacy/anonymity? Reliability? Reliability on never losing contacts/data? User-proof? As in: non-tech people will have it working well without tinkering, and they will not lose their data because they didn't to X procedure?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#936

Post by TheRealSteel »

FalconSensei wrote: post #925
TheRealSteel wrote: post #862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, in Australia I had basically never used WhatsApp. It's barely a thing. (However, Facebook Messenger dominates there, so it's not as if the privacy situation is any better, Facebook Messenger is just a better app/website to use). Here in the UK I am literally required to be on WhatsApp to live in the building I currently live in. I have no choice in this matter. It's just the default messaging service for everyon…

> This "just stop using it" attitude you always get on Hacker News and reddit about facebook and their various messaging platforms baffles me. Unfortunately, seems that for many people on HN, HN is almost all their online social interaction, + tech people on signal/mastodon. Some don't seem to understand the concept of having family and friends who are not tech-savy (or even hate tech). Or understand the concept of s…

Yeah. It's not that I don't believe those people, it's just that I don't think they should act like it's a real option for everybody.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#937

Post by edeion »

nindalf wrote: post #817
edeion wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is similar. I want to add that when I left WhatsApp (~2y ago) I deleted my account. WhatsApp kept accepting messages on my behalf. People didn't know I wasn't getting their messages. I'm surprised I don't see this mentioned to the point I wonder if I did something wrong at the time. In the end, I reopened a WhatsApp account recently because everyone is using WhatsApp in France and I couldn't stand break…

> People didn't know I wasn't getting their messages. They saw 2 ticks, meaning delivered to your device? Or did they see one tick, meaning only delivered to the server? If it's the latter, that's a reasonable choice for the server to make. The server has acknowledged receipt of the message, and failed to send it to your device. If you wanted WhatsApp to advertise to your contacts that your account was inactive, you…

I can only guess that people sending messages to my cancelled WhatsApp account saw only one tick. That's still meaningless to less skilled users and there's no way to tell if the user has gone forever or if they're just offline for a bit.

Anyway, my point is that WhatsApp shouldn't silently accept messages for a non existent user no matter what weak signals you get. When you send a text message to a non existent number, you get an error. Same for an e-mail.

I can't help but think it's a way to deter users from leaving WhatsApp.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#938

Post by tryptophan »

golemiprague wrote: post #289
srfvtgb wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately I don't live in a place where WhatsApp is completely pervasive. I personally had luck saying "if you want to contact me use Signal, iMessage or at the very least SMS" and when people asked why, I would cite Cambridge Analytica.

How do you use iMessage if you got android phone? I hate this thing, would rather give my data to facebook then use it because it creates class separation between poor and rich. I have seen it with my kids who wanted iphone because they couldn't communicate with all the iphone kids who used iMessage. That's in itself much worst to me than some privacy which i already gave up on.

Absolutely agree. iMessage is even more cancerous in its social implications than WA.

I have had smart, educated people say "I got an iphone so I wouldn't be left out of group chats". Because downloading an app is too much work. I'm not sure how asking people to take 5 seconds to do something to improve their life and society became such a taboo.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#939

Post by niutech »

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

Why not make a local WhatsAppSignal bridge using Matrix (https://matrix.org/bridges/) and a disposable SIM card, and just use Signal app on your phone?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#940

Post by niutech »

toprea wrote: post #771
kar1181 wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is precisely the dilemma in a nutshell. You have a choice but it's a bit like voluntary solitary confinement. Especially during a lockdown.

Just thinking out loud here, as I was considering something like this. I can also not give up the WhatsApp account due to the social pressure. What if I would use a second phone, a cheap one, used only for the whatsapp (and some other essential but privacy invasive apps). I would not have that second phone always with me, but it would provide me access to the social network I need without feeling tracked or providing…

I have a second dirt-cheap used phone with a disposable SIM card just for WA. But you could make a WAMatrixSignal bridge (https://matrix.org/bridges/) using a temporary phone no.
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