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Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#931

Post by te_chris »

neonate wrote: post #280
anm89 wrote: post #129

I personally think this is awesome. I don't wan't some git hosting startup to be the arbiter of morality for society. The engineers, designers, and PMs shouldn't have an outsized voice in society because they have a specialized useful skillset and ended up on a successful product. If these users are breaking laws, then put them out of business via the courts and sieze the assets (the repos in this case) via legal mea…

Wow, that is such a clear analysis that someone should transcribe it. Here's the main part of what Naval says: "If Google, Facebook, and Twitter had been smart about this, they would not have picked sides. They would have said "We're publishers. Whatever goes through our pipes goes through our pipes. If it's illegal, we'll take it down. Give us a court order. Otherwise we don't touch it." It's like the phone company.…

The day they started messing with ML driven results and TL's was the day the whole argument about neutrality went out the window.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#932

Post by fwn »

ddxxdd wrote: post #648
alisonatwork wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a fair comparison. The OC was not talking about proselytizing, they were talking about how to create an inclusive environment at work. We cannot create an inclusive environment at work if we are not allowed to openly talk about groups who currently do not feel included and why that is.

Common sense states that it's okay to talk about politics insofar as it relates to workplace productivity.

> Common sense states that it's okay to talk about politics insofar as it relates to workplace productivity.

I don't think this is a sensible idea or common sense.

The problem with it is that it's fine as long as science shows our ideal workplace environment as more productive or superior. We can say things like "diverse working environments increase productivity" and act backed by those facts.

Problem is that it's not really guaranteed that the mechanisms science might suggest in the future actually do support our ideal workplace conditions.

Do we then act on those productivity enhancing ideas as well, even in cases in which they are against our ideals? Would we embrace racism or ageism in the name of productivity?

To me normalizing (allegedly) neutral arguments based on productivity feels like a dangerous shortcut.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#933

Post by jka »

As of yesterday, GitLab's marketing team have made some changes to their Customer Acceptance policy:

https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/...

https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/...

In particular this seems to clarify that the company may under some circumstances not work with particular customers, and that employees can - in private contexts - discuss such issues.

In addition, the justification of 'efficiency' as a reason not to spend time vetting customers has been removed.

It'll still be interesting to watch how GitLab behaves in future, since the original policies stated may remain their true direction, even if the externally-facing language has changed.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#934

Post by UserIsUnused »

yxhuvud wrote: post #927
Gunax wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Refusing to serve a customer when you disagree with that customer's goal is pretty far from being a "moral arbiter for society." Keep in mind that anyone is free to use other services (or roll their own) and gitlab can't do anything about that. Neither would it be overreaching for the workers building that product to request a say in how it's used. I think this is the crux of the issue. Anyone is of course free to…

> Facebook control ~90% of social media. Source? That doesn't really match the numbers I've seen. Especially not for younger people.

Instagram and whatsapp are facebook. Ofc, even then 90% might be too much.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#935

Post by zer0tonin »

flippinburgers wrote: post #714
snowwrestler wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people go and talk to women who started out in the tech pipeline but left, many say that the reasons they left are that they felt unwelcome in some way: they were harassed, under-valued, talked over, stalked, underpaid, etc. Too many women choose to leave not because they didn't like the work, but because they didn't like all the bullshit they were implicitly asked to put up with, in order to do the work. If ver…

Aside from harassed or stalked, the others apply just as much to men. Hate to break it to you. We have been trained by society to put up with it.

You can make anything true if you start your sentence with "aside".

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#936

Post by eeZah7Ux »

wpietri wrote: post #646
anm89 wrote: post #129

I personally think this is awesome. I don't wan't some git hosting startup to be the arbiter of morality for society. The engineers, designers, and PMs shouldn't have an outsized voice in society because they have a specialized useful skillset and ended up on a successful product. If these users are breaking laws, then put them out of business via the courts and sieze the assets (the repos in this case) via legal mea…

"Don't discuss politics at work," is a political statement. It rules particular views in bounds and rules others out. Similarly any business ends up making moral choices. It's unavoidable. To act in the world is to have impact. To consciously act is to intend particular impact. Commerce is inherently social; you choose to serve certain people in certain ways, with particular outcomes intended. These choices are inher…

Spot on. This whole thread on HN reeks of "I was just following orders".

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#937

Post by eeZah7Ux »

ProAm wrote: post #537
anm89 wrote: post #129

I personally think this is awesome. I don't wan't some git hosting startup to be the arbiter of morality for society. The engineers, designers, and PMs shouldn't have an outsized voice in society because they have a specialized useful skillset and ended up on a successful product. If these users are breaking laws, then put them out of business via the courts and sieze the assets (the repos in this case) via legal mea…

While I largely agree, history has shown this wont fair well for humanity either. Look at IBM and the Holocaust [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

The flurry of downvotes is telling.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#939

Post by dredmorbius »

yxhuvud wrote: post #927
Gunax wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Refusing to serve a customer when you disagree with that customer's goal is pretty far from being a "moral arbiter for society." Keep in mind that anyone is free to use other services (or roll their own) and gitlab can't do anything about that. Neither would it be overreaching for the workers building that product to request a say in how it's used. I think this is the crux of the issue. Anyone is of course free to…

> Facebook control ~90% of social media. Source? That doesn't really match the numbers I've seen. Especially not for younger people.

By MAU, 2.3 billion vs 1.9 for YouTube (arguably not a messaging-based SM site), and 1.0 for Instagram (owned by FB). Qzone is 4th at 563 million, 17% of FB+Insta.

Not quite 90% by that measure, but close.

https://www.dreamgrow.com/top-15-most-popular-social-network...

Mindshare, reach, time-on-site, and media references are alternate measures. Definitions matter.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#940

Post by onyva »

Companies are not neutral entities. People work there and have values. If a company thinks it’s ok to serve people that commit crimes against humanity, in the case of ICE and the Drumpf administration, than they have a serious problem. Maybe send the guy a link to the story about IBM and the nazi regime for context.
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