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Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

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Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#931
post #928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook's hold in developing economies is true. But developing economy's hold on their Fiat currency is true as well. So much so that, India is planning to jail anyone who is holding cryptocurrency for 10 years[1]! If this legislation passes, any computer scientist, mathematician, programmer who is working with crypto tokens & block chain can technically be held liable for possessing a crypto currency when they run…

> Yes, the plan to jail those who hold cryptocurrency in a democratic country is preposterous No it isn’t. We jail people who hold child pornography in democratic countries as well. The core of a democratic country is that it’s governed by democratically elected representatives, not that it’s citizens be allowed access to whatever they want independent of criminal consequences. I get you and others are calling to the…

>If this legislation passes, any computer scientist, mathematician, programmer who is working with crypto tokens & block chain can technically be held liable for possessing a crypto currency when they run their program?

Please appropriate your logic on that.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#932
post #853

Let's play a game of predictions. Regardless of HN's opinion of Facebook (and regardless of my own for that matter) I predict that this thing will work. This is only one thing my crystal ball showed me. Facebook's presence in developing economies is massive. To the point of being synonymous with "The Internet" in a number of places. But they've had a nagging problem. People in these economies consume contents, but do…

The challenge with your predictions is they contain too many biases. Your worlds view is dominated by these companies so much that you think that is the only outcome. Libra is likely to validate existing crypto further because it is not financed or backed by commercial interests. Facebook doesn't create economies that is just marketing speak. If they did they would not rely so much on ads to fund the business. In an economy the facilitator gets paid from the transaction.

My issue with Libra is it is a digital currency dressed up as crypto. That means it will be subjected to the same kinds of arbitrage opportunities you get from currency fluctuations and flows. Think of George Soros in the eighties kind of fluctuations.

Right now I don't see the fuss with Libra or understand how the world will be better. All I see is marketing and PR. I guess this is the crypto calling card.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point, I think I'd honestly rather put my money with Facebook than many of those actual banks out there. This is so ridiculous that I don't even know how to argue with it.

Is it because you trust the banks to keep your money safe? Have a look at what happened in 2013 in Cyprus where they did a bail-in with their customer's money to "save" a bank that was too big to fail. I am with parent on this one.

We're not arguing about the safety and viability of banks. Instead, we're directly comparing the safety and viability of banks vs Facebook. If you think that Facebook comes out on top in that comparison, either you really haven't been paying attention, or we fundamentally disagree about what safety and viability mean.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#935
post #853

Let's play a game of predictions. Regardless of HN's opinion of Facebook (and regardless of my own for that matter) I predict that this thing will work. This is only one thing my crystal ball showed me. Facebook's presence in developing economies is massive. To the point of being synonymous with "The Internet" in a number of places. But they've had a nagging problem. People in these economies consume contents, but do…

I predict that Libra will work for a while, but will eventually be overshadowed either by competitors or by the new markets that it enables. There's this pattern I've noticed where every major tech company, once initial traction has been established, gets three pivots. You can think of them as adolescence, mid-life, and rebirth. The first pivot happens when the company is 5-8 years old (since the 1970s at least; olde…

Cannot agree more. All Greek tragedies are based on hubris nemesis catharsis cycle. Unfortunately, many projects, companies nowadays skip the catharsis stage and jump to the next hubris.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#936
post #916

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In three years, Libra will be the largest single venue of public financial services. All branches of retail banks are upgraded with Libra teller machines, becoming fully distributed. Afterwards, they transact with a perfect operational record. The Blockchain Currency Bill is passed, replacing the dollar with Libra. The system goes online on August 4th, 2022. Human decisions are removed from central banking. Libra beg…

I love these comments. See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18281465 (context: "I really wonder what's going to happen to Linux once Linus is gone") We maybe should build a list of these. Dystopic answers to HN's unattended writting prompts, or something.

No need to reinvent the wheel http://longbets.org/

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#937
post #557

This is an interesting story and I would like to learn more about libra-coin. Unfortunately I think hackernews has a strong anti-facebook bias that is making the opinions here nearly universally one sided. I think we can say three things fairly uncontroversially in favor of this 1. The world could use an online independent currency 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having that work on a large scale is…

I don't have an anti-Facebook bias (ok I do, but it's not relevant in this case), but I do have a strong anti-blockchain-as-a-buzzword bias.

1. If the blockchain & all transactions are not public, how is this different to having a non-blockchain based online currency (e.g. "Facebook credits")?

2. If the currency is pegged to USD, how is this different from just having USD in your PayPal account?

My hunch is, this is just a marketing/regulation-evasion exercise. It's not "currency" (it's crypto-currency) so they're not forced to follow the same AML/KYC/capital control/credit check regulations... Governments will quickly catch up though.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#938
post #872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also very cool cryptography and tech on other projects, that are actually decentralized . E.g. Algorand, where I work. Facebook's protocol is permissioned - not so much theoretical novelty there over PBFT (or even non-Byzantine Paxos... companies are under contract anyways, why model them as Byzantine actors?) No way it will scale to 1000+ nodes, in a permissionless gossip network where you cannot directly un…

Vervious I invite you to read the paper, we actually do plan to go full permissionless. BTW I'm a huge fan of Algorand as well. You guys are doing really good work.

"As a result, one of the association's directives will be to work with the community to research and implement this transition, which will begin within five years of the public launch of the Libra Blockchain and ecosystem."

I challenge the Libra team to put their money where their PR is at. Decentralization isn't impossible. Why should it take five years? This reads more like an empty, vague promise to appease the internet.

"The challenge is that as of today we do not believe that there is a proven solution that can deliver the scale, stability, and security needed to support billions of people and transactions across the globe through a permissionless network."

Many people in the cryptographic and distributed systems community, including me, would disagree.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#939
post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It could completely block you any time it wants to for any reason it wants to As opposed to what banks did in Cyprus in 2013 when they seized the money on the savings account of their own customers and basically stopped people from withdrawing their money from their own bank accounts? And said customers had no recourse at all against the banks helping themselves to their money?

In theory, the recourse is that the people can exert power over the banks by electing different politicians. Obviously, sometimes that doesn't work as well as we'd like, but there's not even such a possibility of recourse when Facebook fucks you over.

Not really... The move was forced on Cyprus by the EU, which controls the currency. Essentially the same as Facebook controlling the currency.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of public/private keys if the whole thing can be reversed, recovered and changed by FB with no transparency for the outside world? The private key becomes just a better password, like a SSH key based authentication. Actually I'm pretty sure the wallet will not even require any key. You will be able to sign in with facebook. I see no P2P payments here as everything is really validated by FB and all th…

> The client sees just an old good REST/RPC API with no public access to the backend. The client wallets will be no better/powerful than a paypal client app/wallet. There will be no blockchain to download...as matter of fact you won't even be able to tell if FB really uses blockchain behind the curtains. What is your basis for this? It implies that the fairly detailed whitepapers describing the blockchain are an elab…

You need permission to access this blockchain so unless you are one of the facebook/libra association members you don't know what database is used. In practical terms it doesn't really matter because you can't access it anyway. It's an implementation detail.
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