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Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#931

Post by CPLX »

RealityNow wrote: post #899
CPLX wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is factually incorrect. You're drawing a direct parallel between medallion taxis and Uber/Lyft rides, when they are not in fact the same at all. The outer boroughs, and every neighborhood in the city, has had car service options for decades, where you call a phone number (or often walk to a local storefront stand) to get a ride. This is the exact market segment that Uber has entered. Literally. There wasn't and…

I'll attest to the original comment by davidf18. Uber/Lyft have radically changed NYC for the better. Ride sharing services are significantly cheaper on the order of multiples, easier to use (eg. no more hailing, paying), and a hell of a lot more pleasant to ride in than taxis. Taxis were notoriously bad. They'd intentionally take slower routes to run up the meter, refuse passengers trying to go to locations the driv…

My point, which both of you appear to have missed, is that we're not actually talking about taxis at all. Taxis are things you hail by flagging them down on the street. They're still there, driving around in circles looking for you, just like before. You're just not using them any more.

We're talking about something called livery cars which have existed forever and were also very widely used before Uber as well. You used to arrange for pickup using your phone. You still arrange for pickup using your phone.

The car, the driver, and the laws surrounding both are essentially the same as they were before. What's actually changed is your phone.

This distinction is quite different in cities that aren't New York, where there were taxis and nothing else, and Uber has in fact created a new category of private car transportation service. But here in NYC the non-taxi car service market segment existed already and was vibrant, the parent comment claiming they broke some kind of monopoly is just incorrect.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#932

Post by Robotbeat »

geoelectric wrote: post #924
soneca wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why Lyft get none of the protests? I think you are mixing unrelated subjects. Uber final product is good for society. And other companies can provide the same product (in my city, São Paulo, there are other 3 good companies in the same space). Uber practices as a company are toxic for its employees and some of the toxicity leak to society. If such calculation was possible, I believe it would show a net positive im…

Once upon a time I heard a concept in motorcycling of the sacrificial jerk. This was when you deliberately rode behind someone who rode like an asshole. In turn they provided the upper boundary of your willingness to break the speed limit and for you to ride like an asshole, in hopes that they'd attract the ire of the police instead of you. Leaving any motorcycle safety conversations aside, I think Uber has been the…

I've heard the term "bear bait."

*Smokey (as in the bear) being CB slang for highway police due to the hats.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#933

Post by dgfgfdagasdfgfa »

efuquen wrote: post #606
kevinburke wrote: post #3

According to the article 5 different VC firms representing 40% of the voting shares asked him to resign today. Kalanick still controls the majority of voting shares and a board seat. Most of Kalanick's trouble started with Susan Fowler speaking out. Please believe women when they report harassment in the workplace. Many of their reports may not be as clear cut as Mrs. Fowler's.

If you go to a police station and report a murder do you think they'll a) investigate your claim or b) ignore you? That is the sort of belief we're talking about, a serious investigation with the assumption the person reporting it is not lying. The investigation itself could of course result in not sufficient evidence being found. It's really not that complicated.

Harrassment is often entirely one person's word against another. Many of these cases are decided by who the jury believes, if the case even makes it to court—because, remember, most victims don't press charges.

Investigations don't help much in these cases. The pressure isn't to find (often non-existent) evidence, it is to commit to the shitty process of trying to get people to care about you a painful part of your life.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#934

Post by InclinedPlane »

davidf18 wrote: post #701

Much of the resistance to Uber (such as laws that were broken, protests) were from entrenched interests. At least where I live in NYC, Uber was dramatically improving customer value while providing innovations that reduced greenhouse gas. It provided completion for the entrenched Yellow Cab monopoly with its very high rates. Sometimes Uber would have higher rates but then you could take a Yellow Cab instead. The Yell…

So? They disrupted a bad system and drove some innovation into it, what does that justify?

Let's look at the flip side here. They "disrupted" an industry by repeatedly violating the law and undercutting the competition by subsidizing nearly 2/3 of the cost of fares using investment funds. Is that innovative? I'd argue that nearly anyone could disrupt any industry with such a model, regardless of the actual merits of anything else they'd built.

Add on to that their horrible corporate culture, their seeming support of industrial espionage, and the underhand tactics they use to take advantage of their drivers.

It was smart of them to take on a corrupt, broken, and outdated system, because it allowed people, like you, to whitewash so many of their flaws and transgressions.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#935

Post by euyyn »

pascalxus wrote: post #861
soneca wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why Lyft get none of the protests? I think you are mixing unrelated subjects. Uber final product is good for society. And other companies can provide the same product (in my city, São Paulo, there are other 3 good companies in the same space). Uber practices as a company are toxic for its employees and some of the toxicity leak to society. If such calculation was possible, I believe it would show a net positive im…

if that's the case, you'd have to protest lots of start ups and companies in silicon valley. There's no shortage of toxic workplaces. I think it's a good think to break down monopolies and open up competition.

> if that's the case, you'd have to protest lots of start ups and companies in silicon valley. There's no shortage of toxic workplaces.

What's even the point here? You're aware that no one has to protest a company they don't know or use. And that "you can't protest one if you don't protest all of them" is a fallacy.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#936

Post by InclinedPlane »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #851
chris_7 wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, hope that you are white.

I'm going to wager that wearing a suit and/or other indicators of being of a higher social class are far more important than race. I've never seen a rich minority person discriminated against...

Factually untrue. There are studies proving otherwise.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#937

Post by macspoofing »

phlakaton wrote: post #919
macspoofing wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Please believe women when they report harassment in the workplace This meme is often repeated in context of sexual harrassment (workplace or otherwise). How do you square that with the fact that women are as capable of laying and misleading as men are? How do you square that with "innocent until proven guilty" when accusation are leveled against another individual or company.

I should think that common sense would answer this question. You square it like this: Let's say a person in your company tells you their boss is sexually harrassing them. You're on reasonably good terms with both the accuser and the accused. Some responses you might make in this case: - Deflect. Pretend you didn't hear it. Or, if pressed: "This isn't something I know anything about. You'd better take that up with the…

I'm not sure what your argument is. Unless you are part of HR in your made-up hypothetical situation, it's not your job to intervene or seek retribution because you'll just screw it up and you'll make things worse. Personally, if you know both parties well you may very well find yourself skeptical of those claims ... or not - context matters.

All companies will have a process for handling harrassment claims and process for resolving them. Accusations should be directed to HR (or suitable designated party at the company). If the harrassment continues you may have to involve the legal system - that's what it's there for.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#938

Post by Robotbeat »

ryandrake wrote: post #709
acjohnson55 wrote: post #590

I, for one, will consider using Uber again. It is very important to me to see a change in leadership. I simply couldn't square my use of the app with the sense that Uber was deeply unethical, starting from the top. Also, it's so disappointing to see so many people buy into the cult of personality of the Startup Founder. There's a lot of half-baked reasoning going on on why Uber's fate should be inexorable tied to Tra…

> Also, it's so disappointing to see so many people buy into the cult of personality of the Startup Founder. There's a lot of half-baked reasoning going on on why Uber's fate should be inexorable tied to Travis. So far, the two main arguments I've seen are "because Steve Jobs" and "he raised so much money for them". Neither one of these are compelling in explaining why Uber's survival prospects should be further dama…

It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Successful leadership is only possible if people actually follow and trust the leader. In the absence of that, you'll get apathy and probably utter failure. So if this idea that only a single person can lead a company spreads throughout the company, it becomes true.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#939

Post by BeetleB »

RealityNow wrote: post #899
CPLX wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is factually incorrect. You're drawing a direct parallel between medallion taxis and Uber/Lyft rides, when they are not in fact the same at all. The outer boroughs, and every neighborhood in the city, has had car service options for decades, where you call a phone number (or often walk to a local storefront stand) to get a ride. This is the exact market segment that Uber has entered. Literally. There wasn't and…

I'll attest to the original comment by davidf18. Uber/Lyft have radically changed NYC for the better. Ride sharing services are significantly cheaper on the order of multiples, easier to use (eg. no more hailing, paying), and a hell of a lot more pleasant to ride in than taxis. Taxis were notoriously bad. They'd intentionally take slower routes to run up the meter, refuse passengers trying to go to locations the driv…

Your reply is likely attached to the wrong comment, as you did not address the main thrust of what CPLX is saying.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#940

Post by jmagoon »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #851
chris_7 wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, hope that you are white.

I'm going to wager that wearing a suit and/or other indicators of being of a higher social class are far more important than race. I've never seen a rich minority person discriminated against...

And I've never seen a black hole. Therefore, they don't exist.
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