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What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

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Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#921

Post by johnnyanmac »

sluggishpudding wrote: post #837
zulban wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> See translator jobs getting wiped out. Nobody even blinked an eye, it didn't spark any discussion, no deep thoughts were had. Whenever someone writes something like this "nobody talks about it, nobody cared" I always think that just tells you more about the media sources and community of the author (you) than anything else. Of course people talked about it. They are still talking about it. Of course they cared. The…

Nah. OP's real point is that people didn't talk about translators _enough_. Of course people in the circle are devastated and are screaming at the top of their lungs right now, but at a societal level no one cared enough to for example seriously consider policy changes (like UBI for example).

In that context, a couple of programmers yelling about this on HN also isn't enough. If the group was big enough, we'd hear more talks from policy makers about it. But it's not.

Clearly the tech industry isn't big enough (nor at least, in enough lockstep enough) to push back against this either. So we're still the same as the translators.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#922

Post by JohnMakin »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #580
JohnMakin wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry if I am being uncharitable, but are you saying the solution to depression is that people’s friends groups (which the depressed person may not have access to to begin with) is to just like, bully them out of it? lol? Tell me you’ve never had a depressive episode without telling me. hint: the people with support groups in the first place are less vulnerable and bullying depression doesn’t really help, I could…

You are being uncharitable. In fact, you're demonstrating the dynamics I spoke of in my post. I could give you a detailed response but, given your tone, instead I'll say: assume the best and don't make everything about yourself. Several people I know have struggled with negative mental health effects of finding themselves in a caretaker role for a mentally ill friend or partner. In my experience offline groups (not i…

depression is not the same as clinical mental illness. one is a symptom, one is a disease. your delusion seems to be that it can be reasoned and talked through which I interpreted by how you expressed that as bullying (it is). it can’t be reasoned with. I’m making nothing about myself - don’t really appreciate that projection by the way - I am not a depressed person, but have also been in the situation of caretaking for someone who has experienced this. I can’t even imagine acting on the reckless advice you’ve posted here. but thanks for the tone policing. have a good day.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#923

Post by atkion »

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #806
jvidalv wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small forums is the answer. In spain they are still popular and after some time it feels like an small town in the good sense, you know everyone and everyone knows you. Of course small forums will not IPO

Tildes is nice, Hubski's a nice slow and thoughtful

Thanks for the rec, I hadn't heard of it but Tildes looks very pleasant.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#924

Post by johnnyanmac »

uncivilized wrote: post #434
brushfoot wrote: post #374

"Knowledge work is mostly pointless" is the author's view, so his article (the fruit of knowledge work) should be measured by it. Amd that sentiment is hardly surprising, coming as it does from a Director of AI Operations (his title on LinkedIn).

Do you disagree that your work is pointless?

I make games, so I was never under the illusion that I was saving the world. But at the same time, art moves you, inspires you, reflects your culture, and overall has its own invisible tug on society.

You can definitely argue my work isn't essential. I'd never say my work is pointless.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#925

Post by johnnyanmac »

zmmmmm wrote: post #904

I will say here that there are meaningful jobs that especially tech people can engage with. There are gigantic unsolved problems. Climate change, cancer, thousands of rare disorders with no therapy or even good diagnostics. And many of these fields have actual roles for technical people to fill and usually can't find highly qualified people to do them because a software eng salary is far out of reach of the average r…

>Before burning out, retiring or checking out altogether, I really recommend people look at the concept of halving your salary and taking a job that still employs your skills but is directly attached to actual meaning.

I'm trying. No one is hiring and the interviews I got seem to fall through much faster than they would have 4 years prior (despite having more experience).

My peak earnings were 160k, and 80k (plus my freelancing gigs) would be more than enough for me to pick myself up. But all I see locally in LA for my skillset (mostly C++) is defense, defense, defense. And all those want higher and higher clearance these days, too (I have none).

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#926

Post by johnnyanmac »

throwaway1183 wrote: post #589
thraway3837 wrote: post #549

I think what happened is that a lot of the wrong personalities entered technology for all the wrong reasons. Some of us started in the 80s or 90s and got into it with personal projects and treating the PC as a hobby. It is satisfying to be able to command a hunk of metal and get it to do things. And it can do boring stuff really fast and repeatedly. And that alone was exciting. The majority of us would stay up into t…

Oh my god!! You nailed it. I see two categories in tech. One the builder, innovators, tinkerers, those who just wanted to use tech to draw their ideas to life. Then other is artisan, those who took pride in organizing and craft. Second one is having miserable time. The former like me are having a blast. I love tech for that reason. I stopped talking to people who think LLMs are waste. It's because they don't even tou…

>They think it's a taboo to touch it.

I'm in a tricky situation as someone out of a full time job. Where "I love AI" might be a red flag that I'll use it to cheat. So I'm even more hesitant to make use of it.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#927

Post by johnnyanmac »

flaburgan wrote: post #768

I don't understand those articles, especially, I don't see why AI changed anything. At least for me, the important quest isn't how you build, but what you build. If your product is meaningless, useful only to the company because what it does is futile, then the emptiness you feel is not coming from the fact that AI is "stealing your job". Don't quit to a farm with goats, find a way to distribute food which would have…

> I don't see why AI changed anything.

Impacting millions of jobs under the illusion that it can change something, maybe, kind of, one day, is still changing a lot for people. Those who don't understand this haven't been impacted by a layoff (yet).

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#928

Post by johnnyanmac »

crnkofe wrote: post #638

I have this nagging feeling that the depression, anxiety and pessimism is as-of-late coming from people from all the companies that risked it by adopting token maxing and AI usage enforcement. Its not representative of the whole industry though. There are still many places where engineers or knowledge workers are respected and left to lead (or not) AI adoption.

>There are still many places where engineers or knowledge workers are respected and left to lead (or not) AI adoption.

And they sure aren't hiring.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#929

Post by johnnyanmac »

andix wrote: post #419

I have the feeling this goes much deeper than knowledge work and AI. I see it in many places that people seem to not take their job serious anymore. The incentive seems to be gone. Also their managers don't seem to care anymore, as they are also taking their job less seriously. I can't put a finger on it, but it's not about younger people or Gen Z, it also applies to older people. It just feels like good work doesn't…

It's the product of a low-trust society. Goals and aspirations are founded upon optimism about the future and striving to better youself. If you're a new grad and can't even start your career, what hope do you have for the future.

For the older folk, it does seem like they gave up but also refuse to cede poewr. They lived their full careers and are comfy in retirement on assets. They are just enjoying the rest of life and have no regards for the future.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#930

Post by johnnyanmac »

dan_q wrote: post #714
hdndjsbbs wrote: post #496

The bigger problem, for me, is that knowledge work has become stupid. If you want to write code by hand and do a good job, you will be ruthlessly replaced by your boss churning out "good enough" LLM code. The CEO at my company tried to PR code to my repo. It didn't make any sense but it was a whole political thing to make it go away. The industry has always been stupid and selfish and short-sighted but now the ICs at…

> The industry has always been stupid and selfish and short-sighted but now the ICs at the bottom of the pyramid are themselves being commoditized like all the workers they "disrupted". Are you allowed to use the word "union" on this website?

Sure. Reactions to the word are mixed, though. Tech is still very resistant to the idea for various reasons.
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