Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

921–930 of 983 posts

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#921

Post by Gagarin1917 »

root_axis wrote: post #910
Gagarin1917 wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, both sides do implement protectionist laws. Did we already forget about Biden raising tariffs on Chinese EVs to protect the auto industry & unions? I’m not sure you’re looking at things quite fairly.

The fact that you're likening a sparing few narrowly targeted tarrifs to capriciously applied illegal global tarrifs suggests you're not quite looking at things fairly.

What? What are you talking about?

I’m clearly likening it to the subject of this thread: using government to create protectionist policies.

100% tariffs on Chinese EVs is a protectionist policy by Biden. Banning Chinese AI would be a protectionist policy from Trump.

Where did you get confused?

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#922

Post by e44858 »

mft_ wrote: post #827
surajama wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might stop European companies from buying inference directly from China. I don’t see how anyone could possibly stop them from taking an open-weight Chinese model and then modifying it and selling it to Americans as a European model.

It would become known and be blocked. You think if the EU started rebadging and reexporting Chinese EVs to the US the EU tariff wouldn't jumt up to the Chinese level very quickly?

How can you prove that a modified LLM was based on a Chinese model?

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#923

Post by mft_ »

e44858 wrote: post #922
mft_ wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would become known and be blocked. You think if the EU started rebadging and reexporting Chinese EVs to the US the EU tariff wouldn't jumt up to the Chinese level very quickly?

How can you prove that a modified LLM was based on a Chinese model?

IANA AI researcher, but there are different technique for fingerprinting or assessing the similarity of different LLM models. Or it could become known via a leak, or good old humint.

If it wanted to, the US could make model inspection (with direct access to the weights) a condition of access to their market.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#924

Post by root_axis »

Gagarin1917 wrote: post #921
root_axis wrote: post #910

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you're likening a sparing few narrowly targeted tarrifs to capriciously applied illegal global tarrifs suggests you're not quite looking at things fairly.

What? What are you talking about? I’m clearly likening it to the subject of this thread: using government to create protectionist policies. 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs is a protectionist policy by Biden. Banning Chinese AI would be a protectionist policy from Trump. Where did you get confused?

You're right. I misread your comment as attached to a different thread.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#926

Post by econ »

emacdona wrote: post #667
gpt5 wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is - these models costs hundreds of billions to develop - to BOTH US and China. China is giving them for free despite not making financial sense because they want to weaken US's tech firms ability to compete - because China sees AI dominance as critical for their national security. The US also sees AI dominance as critical for their national security, and relies on a market economy and non-state-owned la…

> The US also sees AI dominance as critical for their national security, and relies on a market economy and non-state-owned labs. [...] > but the fact the discussion here ignores the fact that these concerns and dynamics are real just lower the discussion level instead of actually discussing potential solutions. We had this problem solved for DECADES. Build the best post-secondary education system in the world. Lure…

Took me a while but for the west the value of education isn't primarily in jobs but in democracy. It puts the bar much higher than we've ever accomplished. People are supposed to run th county (believe it or not)

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#927

Post by anticensor »

zuzululu wrote: post #29
MangoCoffee wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US's court can enforce IPs. Didn't Antrhpic just agree to pay book authors billion for the recent lawsuit settlement?

That will never happen. Copyright is not a thing in China.

Copyright is a thing in China, but Chinese enforcement is very different.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#928

Post by econ »

As I was hoarding rss feeds I started wondering what news is and perhaps what it could and should be.

The data showed that mainstream news only happens in specific countries. The rest of the world is only newsworthy if many people die or it affects the west.

It's not some CONSPIRACY but simple monkey see monkey do. A kind of imitation olympics and echo chamber.

For a news website HN has very little coverage of Chinese stuff before LLMs so you end up with everything china in one topic.

There is advantage to be had in being the center of attention but to some extend you also have to look around you.

In contrast with the Chinese government throwing it's weight around and the US ecosystem Africa lacks large incumbents. There are different challenged but your competitors have to deal with them too. They seem to think crypto is the same thing as fintech which is fascinating on its own.

Lots of tech news all over the world and the sub set involving us companies alone should easily be newsworthy here.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#929

Post by expedition32 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #311
FpUser wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"China has violently annexed sovereign countries in the past decades." An outright lie. The only possible candidate is Tibet but it's former sovereignty is very questionable and not clear cut

> it's former sovereignty is very questionable and not clear cut Same as Taliban-run Afghanistan, same as Iraq, same as Ukraine, same as Taiwan. If you’re Tibetan, the line is academic—you faced, by modern definitions, genocide all the same. Calling the territory you’re invading and/or annexing illegitimately independent, illegitimately governed is how these always go.

The US was literally founded on genocide. Glass houses.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#930

Post by TurdF3rguson »

cobbzilla wrote: post #913
TurdF3rguson wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a finite number of tokens that a rig will turn out over it's lifetime. Divide the cost of the rig plus electricity by that number and you have your cost per token. Yes providers can screw up on scheduling and end up paying more than they should, but that's not magic.

The AI rigs cost money, sure. But no one is talking about regulating those. We are talking about regulating models, which do have zero cost of reproduction. It’s like banning the leaked DeCSS key. Good luck.

Well, no. We're mostly talking about banning access to models running on someone else's infra.

I don't think many people in this thread have the resources to run a frontier model in their living room.

Post reply on HN