Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

Post by kelipso » Mon, Jun 01, 2026, 7:40 PM UTC

whateverboat wrote: post #815

ziofill wrote: post #708

I can’t help comparing this to the system I grew up in (Italy), which is vastly different and it seemingly produces very good graduates. University was free and there was no test for enrolling in STEM degrees, and you could retry exams every semester as much as you wanted to. But goddamit exams were HARD and if you weren’t prepared enough you would keep failing until you gave up. We weren’t entitled because we weren’…

I think the problems are deeper. The problems are at school level. The variance in the level of schooling in US is huge compared to Italy in my experience. This factor means that school exams are not a good indicator of competitiveness. Furthermore, the social systems in Italy mean that the failure is not that problematic especially for kids from poor backgrounds. And therefore, risk of depression etc was much lower.…

Post by z3c0 » Tue, Jun 02, 2026, 2:04 AM UTC

hedora wrote: post #359

z3c0 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conundrum of "equality of outcome" vs "equality of opportunity" hinges on that core question. It's weird, and possible contradictory, to see a policy claiming to attempt both. Most would define a "fair" opportunity as everyone getting the same chances to succeed, but a "fair" outcome would segment on merit. If angling towards fair outcomes, there's usually less uproar over lifting the floor (e.g financial aid), v…

A much better policy would be to raise the floor and not pay attention to equality of outcome. If the worst school in 2036 California is better than the average school in 2026, then that's an obvious win. (That goal is completely achievable -- only about a third of California students are grade-level proficient right now.)

Post by tjwebbnorfolk » Wed, Jun 03, 2026, 6:42 PM UTC

ajkjk wrote: post #817

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one has to suck at any one thing, but one person can't possibly be good at everything . Time is finite -- everything you choose to do is a choice to not do some other thing.

nevertheless most people can be a lot better at most things than they are, in the same amount of time, if the education and culture around education is of higher quality.