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Ghostty is leaving GitHub

mitchellh.com

921–930 of 1001 posts

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#921

>It’s not a fun place for me to be anymore. I want to be there but it doesn't want me to be there. I want to get work done and it doesn't want me to get work done. I want to ship software and it doesn't want me to ship software. Has anyone else shared this sentiment? If so Redmond needs to lean in hard. this is an absolute killing blow for Microsoft if it gains real traction. You made developers your cornerstone eigh…

I know there is a complicated history here as well but I personally find VS Code pretty satisfactory for my needs and really appreciate that it's free.

Not sure if that balances out the burning fire of hate I feel for Microsoft Office but it's something.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#922
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi there! Longtime fan and hubber here. It's okay to have emotions. I have similar emotions. I'm GitHub User 22723 which is effectively the same as you (considering there's ~180m GH accounts nowadays) My version of your post reads differently: "GitHub only gets better if people who give a shit stick around to make it better" Walking away would be easy. I felt that way when I left Heroku ~six years ago. I left that jo…

I used to work at GitHub. I think you should find a new job. Before Microsoft came along, the entire company was aligned from the bottom to the top around the goal of delivering a single great product. As soon as they bought us, that changed; there were now lots of ways for an individual to succeed at GitHub-the-division-of-Microsoft that had nothing to do with GitHub-the-product. Now GitHub doesn't even have its own…

This issue of large organizations making shitty products seems to infect every company except for a handful. Even Google, with all its good intensions, by 2010 was full of political animals climbing ever higher on the corporate ladder while management struggled to set incentives correctly to make the company product focused.

Its just unbelievably hard to nail the culture and incentives in large organizations. Some notable exceptions: Sony in its first 3 decades, Toyota in the 70-90s era, Apple after the return of Jobs and till his death, and one could even argue Microsoft in the era of Windows 95 till about Xbox 1. Maybe even Tesla and SpaceX.

Something hard to quantify happens when the culture of product erodes and the culture of politics virally infects a company. I witnessed it at a couple of big companies ... Intel in the late 90s, Google in the 2010-15 era (working as a contractor looking in).

Hats off to people like Jobs and Musk who could grow product culture at scale ... I can't even say I've been successful at fostering this kind of culture in startups under 500 employees.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#923

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a surprise at all. I saw the exact same thing at Meta. The incentives are so strong to improve your individual performance that it's hard to resist, literally hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake. Now with the fear of constant layoffs at Microsoft and Meta too, it's even more critical for individual engineers to optimize their performance review or you might lose your job. Sadly this is hard to line u…

Maybe I'm naïve, but it seems like the people who keep their eye on the ball and really try to make a great product are the ones who win out in the long run. If you optimize for performance reviews, you'll make a lot of money, yeah. But you'll eventually find yourself overemployed and incapable of keeping up with that gambit anymore. Or, you'll find yourself doing something you never wanted to do. In extreme cases, i…

I think this can be true at the IC level and in situations where the organization's success depends on the product being good, but that's not always the case. Big companies with market control can go years, or perhaps even indefinitely make bad product decisions and still print money. Product development comes to revolve less around merit and more about appearances.

I've worked in big tech and had the sort of conversations with my managers where they say: "The work you're doing in X is great. I use it and it really needs work. But it's not a priority, or even 'impactful'. Your work on X is effectively equivalent to doing no work".

Sometimes it isn't even about getting a promotion, sometimes the implication is you should be worried about keeping your job. You can still do X which everyone knows is great and someone should do, but "on your spare time, as an extra" because Y is what your performance review will really revolve around.

The sad part is I can tell they mean it, and do agree someone needs to work on X, but it isn't their decision to make, because they have to show face and explain to their manager why an engineer earning XXX,XXX didn't meaningfully work on Y. Ultimately someone up the chain who you've never talked to is the person who decided X is unimportant; they don't want to kill it they just don't use it, or have a strategic reason to not care about it.

In the politics of upper management perhaps it was something an adversary used to vouch for, and now you have to prove the org can do without it. Or perhaps it's the ace in your pocket, and you wan't it to be lack-luster so when the big boss above you starts talking about retirement, you can show amazing wins in the area and be first in line for succession. Companies are not democracies. For better or for worse big companies are not democracies, they are feuds, so if the kingdom isn't in danger its future comes to depend a lot not on what's the best decision, but how a decision fits the game of thrones.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#924
Ghostty doesn't get updated frequently, thought it was a low velocity project with minimal let it run off into the sunset project. It took them a year or 2 to get even a seemingly simple "find text" feature, which I thought was standard lowest bar you must pass to be a competent terminal.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#925

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid this is a form of reversion to the mean. Successful startups are made of exceptional people: the founders, the initial investors, the first employees, the first clients. But when they get acquired by much larger companies, they are necessarily diluted in pool of people that are more "normal", less exceptional. This includes the customer base that is more "normal" as well. Slowly but surely, the extraordina…

There might be a few (debatable) counter-examples: 37 signals, balsamiq, zoho? Afaik they never took any (serious) VC money.

I was referring to the case where the founders and investors sell the startup to larger company. Of course, if they don't sell, and the company stays founder-led, the outcome is often better. I didn't know Zoho never took (serious) VC money.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#926
post #8

It really has been remarkable watching GitHub just crumble as an organization. There's a lot of discussion about why: the switch from being independent to being part of Microsoft, having resources pushed to Copilot instead of core service, the organization structure itself, a reliance on vibe coding, etc etc. Regardless of the reason, it's undeniable that GitHub is facing some serious issues. The unofficial status pa…

Wow. According to the current metric (87.25% uptime), github suffers a partial outage 3h/day. https://onlineornot.com/uptime-calculator/87.25

Wait, this is insane! And the method they use to classify an outage seems solid as well. Imagine being a Github dev working in this environment.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#927
GitHub indeed used to be a undisputably good entity. Now I whenever I push something non-trivial I wonder if some AI will take my code without credit.

I don’t mind the lower availability to be honest but I also noticed it.

To be fair I don’t add new code on GitHub for my own private projects anymore. Public projects of course profit from the network effect but there must be a better way. Before GitHub people also did well, Linux, many well known GNU projects etc. were created without GitHub.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#928
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Youve lost the OS, and the server realm. Lose the developers, and youre on your way to becoming the Xerox of the 21st century. This is a very HN take. MS is terrible or at best "second tier" on everything they do including gaming, they also lost the mobile race, they're very likely going to lose the AI race, but they'll still hold hostage of the vast swathes of average white collar workers with Office, people that…

Is this even an issue these days ? I thought GSuite was good enough for most office work for a very long time now ?

I'd say that for the majority of old-school, established, non-tech organizations (oil, steel, manufacturing, governments, etc), it's not only an issue but it's the de-facto standard, along with Exchange, ActiveDirectory and all the nice things that come with it.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#929

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit lost about the problem. Is it really about crying about outages? I'm aware of enshittification issues in the broader tech field but the post and this comment don't really say what the problem is. If this is supposed to be some kind of signal and wakeup call, more info would help. For context I'm a lightweight Github user for over a decade, mostly putting up personal projects without much collab, and opening…

> Is it really about crying about outages You mean being affected by the constant outages that make the product literally unusable? If you were doing any serious work with it you might understand.

Thanks, I thought there was some other kind of flareup recently. This seems like bog standard service provider stuff. When my Vodafone internet connection has a lot of outages, I switch to another ISP. Same here. No need to overdramatize it. Use GitLab or whatever else.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#930
PSA: For many people, the alternative to Github is Codeberg, and they're doing some extremely shady stuff. They claim to be open source, but the code on their servers is definitely not the code in their repo.

They have a visual-only captcha on signup with a (extremely-badly-documented and non-obvious) workaround for accessibility, and that workaround doesn't work if you build Codeberg from source. If you look at the commit history, the frontend changes for the workaround are still there (tucked away in an unassuming refactoring commit), the backend check... isn't.

This is the one undocumented change we can clearly detect, God only knows how many more there are. For such a self-described champion of open source, such behavior should be considered unacceptable.

I'm deliberately not describing the workaround here, I suppose that the reason it's so well hidden is to prevent spammers from abusing it. As it is currently the only way to sign up for a Codeberg account with a screen reader, no matter how ineffective for most people, I'm hesitant to post more details here. All I'm going to say is that it can be found if you carefully look at the frontend code of the signup form.

I've tried reaching out to Codeberg about this (had a DM conversation on Mastodon with one of the members, but there was no further response.

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