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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#921

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #650
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An Indian friend of mine, constantly raves about their UPI system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface It sounds a lot like what they're discussing.

Oh it is good. It has its drawbacks (like everything else) but it's quite the de facto now and UPI Lite ( a wallet not on individual apps but on UPI/NCPI f/w itself) had made it even better.

My friend says even the poorest Indians use it.

You can buy vegetables at a farmer's market, and just scan a QR code.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#922

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

JackSlateur wrote: post #511
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with these is always who pays for fraud. With credit cards, they actually claw that money back from the merchant, and then if the merchant can't pay they just eat it themselves. So the merchant has to work in fraud rates into their pricing, and the credit card company has to work in fraud rates that the merchant can't cover into their rates. It always seemed toxic it to me that the merchants are the one's…

Could you describe what is the "fraud" you are talking about ? Like, if someone stole a credit card and use it to buy stuff ?

Yes, that's considered the merchant's fault by the credit card companies.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#923

Post by mgce »

volkl48 wrote: post #218
joevandyk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This last summer, I couldn’t use my US-issued Visa or Mastercard credit card in most places in the Netherlands. Had to use debit.

Literally just got back from a trip there and didn't find a single business or transaction that I couldn't pay for with various US-issued (Chase + BoA) Visa credit cards via tap. Even more surprisingly to me - a pretty decent chunk of businesses even would accept AmEx. By no means all, but I recall it being basically nonexistent not that long ago. And to be clear - much of my time was not in areas that get a ton of f…

My experience matches yours. I found AmEx accepted maybe 50% of the time, if not less. But Visa or MasterCard were accepted 99% of the time, both big and small businesses.

I suspect you're right: it depends on the specific card/bank, not whether it's credit or debit.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#924

Post by tjwebbnorfolk »

distances wrote: post #772
tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This literary device is so common it has a name: synecdoche. e.g. "The pentagon" to refer to the US military. Now we just need a word for performative dense-ness.

I would not assume denseness -- many/most languages do not have this habit of referring to the capital. So it can easily sound weird if you aren't that immersed in English news and discussions.

I am not assuming denseness, I'm assuming performative denseness. People very often pretend to have stuff go over their head in a sad attempt to make a point.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#925

Post by [deleted] »

vidarh wrote: post #191
V__ wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for This is a uniquely American viewpoint. In most of Europe you don't buy anything on credit ever.

There are numerous credit providers in Europe that would beg to differ. By December 2025, consumer credit in the Euro area alone stood at an estimated €812 billion.

[deleted]

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#926

Post by glenneroo »

HunOL wrote: post #758
Freak_NL wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would you expect people not living in the Netherlands to just know this? Because this is a thing in most of Europe. Most people don't own a creditcard, and those that do use it mostly for online purchases outside of the EU. I don't travel to another continent without looking up how to pay for things when I get there.

> Because this is a thing in most of Europe. I think you wastly exegarate your observations.

According to this, he's mostly right: https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/people_with_credit...

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#927

Post by HunOL »

glenneroo wrote: post #926
HunOL wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because this is a thing in most of Europe. I think you wastly exegarate your observations.

According to this, he's mostly right: https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/people_with_credit...

It's not about owning credit card, but about being able to use it in physical shop. In one of the parent comments author of comment to which I replied said:

> Why would you expect to be able to use a creditcard in a physical shop in the Netherlands?

And then

> Because this is a thing in most of Europe.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#928

Post by kergonath »

joe_mamba wrote: post #781
kergonath wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It always boggles my mind that most Europeans are absolutely convinced that nothing like that could ever happen again. It’s not that it cannot happen again. It’s that the EU is explicitly built against that and if it happens it will come from the national governments (see Hungary), not the EU.

> It’s that the EU is explicitly built against that and if it happens it will come from the national governments (see Hungary) So to prevent individual EU nations ever becoming authoritarian, like Hungary, we have to cede sovereignty and authority to the EU & EC unelected bureaucrats like Ursula VDL who take over as the main executive leaders, ensuring we'll no longer have the danger of national-level authoritarianis…

> So to prevent individual EU nations ever becoming authoritarian, like Hungary, we have to cede sovereignty and authority to the EU & EC unelected bureaucrats like Ursula VDL who take over as the main executive leaders, ensuring we'll no longer have the danger of national-level authoritarianism.

Not really, and the example of Hungary shows that it would not be that effective for that purpose.

The EU is a union of nations, not really of people. It was built so that nations play nice with each other. Each member state still does more or less what it wants within its borders, as long as it does not jeopardise the union.

In that way it’s not perfectly democratic, because there are layers of indirection between the citizens and the institutions.

Commissioners are nominated by member states and approved by parliament. So they are generally aligned with the politics dominant at the national level and palatable to MEPs. Von der Leyen is there because she had support from the German government and was from the dominant block in parliament. It’s not direct democracy, but it is not a faceless blob either.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#929

Post by nozzlegear »

Sharparam wrote: post #884
nozzlegear wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But isn't the promise of Apple Pay that you never expose your real credit card # to the merchant? So they can't track you? I know Walmart in Canada really resisted Apple Pay for a few years because it would mean no more ability to track people by their payment methods. Yes, this is exactly what Walmart does in the US since they still don't accept Apple Pay/Google Pay. When I go in and make a purchase using my credi…

> since they still don't accept Apple Pay/Google Pay. When I go in and make a purchase using my credit or debit card, they'll associate it with my Walmart account Why wouldn't they be able to do that with at least Google Pay? I pay with my phone using Google Pay at a Swedish grocery store chain and it's connected to my loyalty account there. (Since I don't use Apple Pay I don't know if the same works there.)

I guess I'm not familiar with how Google Pay actually works, I assumed it was the same as Apple Pay. With Apple Pay the merchant gets a randomized card number on every transaction.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#930

Post by locknitpicker »

joe_mamba wrote: post #911
locknitpicker wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jacques BAUD and Xavier MOREAU, Swiss and French nationals respectively, were sanctioned by the EU along with a laundry list of Russian nationals, on the accusation of being russian mouthpieces (...) If this is the best example you can muster, you don't have much of a case. They are Russian nationals pushing propaganda for a totalitarian regime which has been engaging in wars of annexation throughout Europe and who…

>They are Russian nationals pushing propaganda for a totalitarian regime which has been engaging in wars of annexation throughout Europe and whose threats of nuclear war against Europe are pushed on almost on a daily basis. Where's the proof beyond reasonable doubt resulting from a trial, that those European citizens have done the things you say? Or is Euro News propaganda supposed to be the only proof on which EU ge…

> Where's the proof beyond reasonable doubt resulting from a trial, that those European citizens have done the things you say?

Are you nuts? Not only does the guy run a company dedicated exclusively to push Kremlin propaganda, he literally presents propaganda program's in Kremlin's RT.

Are you living under a rock?

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/pixels/article/2023/12/15/the-web-...

At this point it's evident you are either playing the role of wilful ignorant, or heavily invested in being contrarian.

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