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X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

bbc.com

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Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#921

Post by notepad0x90 »

utopiah wrote: post #457

To people claiming a physical raid is pointless from the point of gathering data : - you are thinking about a company doing good things the right way. You are thinking about a company abiding by the law, storing data on its own server, having good practices, etc. The moment a company starts to do dubious stuff then good practices start to go out the window. People write email with cryptic analogies, people start dele…

Yeah, two things to add:

1) Even when you move things to a server, or remove it from your device, evidence is still left over without your knowledge sometimes.

2) Evidence of data destruction, is in itself as the name implies, evidence. And it can be used to prove things.

For example, an ext4 journal or NTFS USN $J journal entry that shows "grok_version_2.4_schema.json" where twitter is claiming grok version 2.4 was never deployed in France/UK is important. That's why tools like shred and SDelete rename files before destroying them. But even then, when those tools rename and destroy files, it stands out, it might even be worse because investigators can speculate more. It might corroborate some other piece of evidence (e.g.: sdelete's prefetch entry on windows, or download history from a browser for the same tool), and that might be a more serious charge (obstruction of justice in the US).

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#922

Post by Spivak »

vintermann wrote: post #525
ChuckMcM wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly the media calls the lawful use of a warrant a 'raid' but that's another issue. The warrant will have detailed what it is they are looking for, French warrants (and legal system!) are quite a bit different than the US but in broad terms operate similarly. It suggests that an enforcement agency believes that there is evidence of a crime at the offices. As a former IT/operations guy I'd guess they want on-prem ser…

It is a raid in that it's not expected, it relies on not being expected, and they come and take away your stuff by force. Maybe it's a legal raid, but let's not sugar coat it, it's still a raid and whether you're guilty or not it will cause you a lot of problems.

I mean it's not like people get advanced notice of search warrants of that police ask pretty please. I agree that the way people use the term it's a fine usage but the person using is trying to paint a picture of a SWAT team busting down the door by calling it that.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#923

Post by otherme123 »

swiftcoder wrote: post #861
mothballed wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a show of force. "Look we have big strong men with le guns and the neat jack boots, we can send 12 of them in for every one of you." Whether it is actually needed for evidence is immaterial to that.

It can be both things at once. It obviously sends a message, but hey, maybe you get lucky, and someone left a memo in the bin by the printer that blows the case wide open.

Or maybe they are storing documents with secrets in a room or even in the bathroom.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#924

Post by mothballed »

Teever wrote: post #913
mothballed wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a show of force. "Look we have big strong men with le guns and the neat jack boots, we can send 12 of them in for every one of you." Whether it is actually needed for evidence is immaterial to that.

If law enforcement credibily believes that criminals are conspiring to commit a crime and are actively doing so in a particular location what is wrong with sending armed people to stop those criminal acivities as well as apprehend the criminals and what ever evidence of their crimes may exist? If this isn't the entire purpose of law enforcement then what is exactly?

No, a search warrant isn't intended to [directly] apprehend criminals, though an arrest warrant may come later to do that.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#925

Post by mekdoonggi »

devwastaken wrote: post #821

E.U is replacing their citizens with unvetted violent criminals. They have to vote for whoever gives them free stuff. The powers doing this are upset a company in the U.S allows their citizens to protest it.

Read that on X?

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#927

Post by vpark »

almosthere wrote: post #870
utopiah wrote: post #457

To people claiming a physical raid is pointless from the point of gathering data : - you are thinking about a company doing good things the right way. You are thinking about a company abiding by the law, storing data on its own server, having good practices, etc. The moment a company starts to do dubious stuff then good practices start to go out the window. People write email with cryptic analogies, people start dele…

At some point in the near future I see a day where our work laptops are nothing more than a full screen streaming video to a different computer that is housed in a country that has no data extradition treaties and is business friendly. Because that country and the businesses that support that are going to get RICH from such a service.

Not video but that's essentially how companies like Google operate today. That's why their engineers can use an off the shelf Chromebook. Their IDE is on the web, etc.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#928

Post by krick »

skissane wrote: post #534
317070 wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there is evidence that this company made and distributed CSAM and pornographic deepfakes to make a profit. There is no evidence lacking there for the investigators. So the question becomes if it was done knowingly or recklessly, hence a police raid for evidence. See also [0] for a legal discussion in the German context. [0] https://arxiv.org/html/2601.03788v1

> Well, there is evidence that this company made and distributed CSAM I think one big issue with this statement – "CSAM" lacks a precise legal definition; the precise legal term(s) vary from country to country, with differing definitions. While sexual imagery of real minors is highly illegal everywhere, there's a whole lot of other material – textual stories, drawings, animation, AI-generated images of nonexistent mi…

To me, the most worrying part of the whole discussion is that your comment is pretty much the most "daring", if you can call it that, attempt to question if there even is a crime. Everyone else is worried about raids (which are normal whenever there is an ongoing investigation, unfortunate as it may be to the one being investigated). And no one dares to say, that, uh, perhaps making pictures on GPU should not be considered a crime in the same sense as human-trafficking or production of weapons are... Oh, wait. The latter is legal, right.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#930

Post by TitaRusell »

almosthere wrote: post #870
utopiah wrote: post #457

To people claiming a physical raid is pointless from the point of gathering data : - you are thinking about a company doing good things the right way. You are thinking about a company abiding by the law, storing data on its own server, having good practices, etc. The moment a company starts to do dubious stuff then good practices start to go out the window. People write email with cryptic analogies, people start dele…

At some point in the near future I see a day where our work laptops are nothing more than a full screen streaming video to a different computer that is housed in a country that has no data extradition treaties and is business friendly. Because that country and the businesses that support that are going to get RICH from such a service.

Did you miss what happened to Maduro?
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