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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

electrek.co

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#921

Post by ssl-3 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #764
ssl-3 wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For somewhere between 25 and 100 bucks, you can hire some dude with a truck to make furniture disappear for you.

This is Seattle, anything that involves people is expensive. Also You’ll see furniture left on the corner and it will just stay there forever, it’s not like Austin where all the junk is combed though ever morning.

https://www.seattle.gov/utilities/your-services/collection-a...

In Seattle, it costs $30 per large furniture item to make it go away using official methods. How much do you have? (And how does that compare to the price of buying and keeping a pickup truck?)

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#922

Post by horsawlarway »

majormajor wrote: post #469
horsawlarway wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the size of Ford, sales numbers can be at a different mark for what is considered successful than others. Does this really hold when Tesla has a considerably higher valuation? Tesla is sitting at an egregious 30x market cap of Ford. If anything... I'd expect them to have sales targets that are ~30x the size of Ford. When you consider that Ford also makes many more models than Tesla (Tesla has like 8 core models…

> Does this really hold when Tesla has a considerably higher valuation? > Tesla is sitting at an egregious 30x market cap of Ford. If anything... I'd expect them to have sales targets that are ~30x the size of Ford. It almost holds BECAUSE of that. Tesla's valuation has been wildly detached from its sales numbers for years, so having a poorly-selling Cybertruck doesn't really matter. But admitting that a high-end hig…

At some point, reality does re-assert itself.

I agree that Tesla has incentives to mislead with continued announcements about how great everything is (while the board/musk continue to dump their stock as fast as they legally can...).

But eventually... people are going to want their money out of this pie, and it clearly can't provide.

My personal opinion is that Tesla is now Enron 2.0 - and at some point we'll see a similar collapse, on a larger scale. But who knows if enough of the regulatory framework in the US will survive to actually slap them once it happens. I'm not super optimistic.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#923

Post by seanw444 »

autoexec wrote: post #216
Lammy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. So many vehicles, especially in the truck space, are almost indistinguishable and lack any kind of imagination. I 1000% agree with this, in fact I love the way it looks, like something out of a SEGA Saturn game. But I would never buy one for the same reasons I would never buy any Tesla, or in fact any EV, or any post-2014 car at all.…

> Wahhh I bought my car to make a statement and now it makes the wrong statement and I am self-conscious about it!!”. I I read it exactly the opposite. Somebody bought a car not because they were making a statement but just because they thought it was cool, only to find out later Elon was a nazi nutjob, and they don't want people to think they bought it because they share the same views.

> Elon was a nazi nutjob

I find it hilarious that people think this because he did some tangentially Roman-salute-esque gesture once. His political platform is nowhere near Nazism. He would actually be a much more interesting person if it were.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#924

Post by SoftTalker »

pbmonster wrote: post #778
BizarroLand wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 3 vehicles, an old project jeep, an old truck, and a sedan. Sedan handles 99% of my driving, but can't really tow anything. Truck handles all of my towing stuff, but gets ~14mpg which hurts so I don't drive it. Jeep is a jeep, it's always being worked on, but when I use it I'm using it to go ride around on dirt paths or for camping. It gets 17-20mpg when I'm driving it but I don't want to drive it often. If th…

> I would feel very uncomfortable towing an empty 4x6 trailer behind my sedan, not to even mention the occasional couch or dresser or bunch of boxes from helping a friend move. Why? 1500 lbs rated tow hook on an average sedan should be no problem at all. And that's more than enough for a 4x6 with a couch and a couple of boxes. Might even get a slightly larger trailer so you don't have to take the couch apart. I've to…

It's at least as much about being able to stop it as it is being able to pull it. An loaded utility trailer with no trailer brakes on a wet road is going to jacknife in any kind of emergency stop, and the brakes on a Corolla are going to be challenged to do it even on a dry road.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#925

Post by morshu9001 »

NoLinkToMe wrote: post #910
morshu9001 wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not 99% of the time, it's for people who own single-family homes. Apartment dwellers maaaybe have EV spots but can't leave their cars there.

I think OP has it right. Tesla with lowest range has 430km, highest range 650. Let's average it to 500km. The average American driver drives 60km per day. In other words you need to charge less than every 8 days. You can charge to 80% in about 20-30 minutes. In other words if you find yourself near a charge (easy) for 20-30 minutes a week (easy), then on average there is no range issue. You're either in a rural area…

Sure, I'm not saying the EV is infeasible, just that the "full tank every morning" part is only for homeowners. That's what the 99% footnote was on.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#926

Post by mrguyorama »

suburban_strike wrote: post #911
poulsbohemian wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Educate me: How is the Canyon, Ranger, or Frontier not a modern equivalent to the S10? All small(ish) trucks available in a two door or extended cab configuration with basic options.

The Frontier is massive compared to what it used to be. 90s Frontier was a small pickup truck. 2010s Frontier is the size of a 90s F-150. Product of mfrs cheating CAFE standards.

Small pickups could be pretty fuel efficient. The problem is not CAFE standards but the fact that zero Americans buy small trucks, because the entire market for new vehicles in the US is people who are financially illiterate and easily marketed to and making them buy $80k brodozers is more profitable than a $30k S10

Half these people still choose to buy the vehicle they do for insane and superficial reasons like "It's got a Hemi", like my uncle, even though Hemispherical combustion chambers haven't been state of the art or even good ICE technology in decades.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#927

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ssl-3 wrote: post #921
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Seattle, anything that involves people is expensive. Also You’ll see furniture left on the corner and it will just stay there forever, it’s not like Austin where all the junk is combed though ever morning.

https://www.seattle.gov/utilities/your-services/collection-a... In Seattle, it costs $30 per large furniture item to make it go away using official methods. How much do you have? (And how does that compare to the price of buying and keeping a pickup truck?)

Ya, thats actually quite reasonable. And no, I'm not thinking about buying and keeping a pickup, just because I have nowhere to park it :). But maybe one of those kei trucks that are so popular recently might be worth it, if I can just get used to the steering wheel being on the left.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#928

Post by mrguyorama »

pbmonster wrote: post #778
BizarroLand wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 3 vehicles, an old project jeep, an old truck, and a sedan. Sedan handles 99% of my driving, but can't really tow anything. Truck handles all of my towing stuff, but gets ~14mpg which hurts so I don't drive it. Jeep is a jeep, it's always being worked on, but when I use it I'm using it to go ride around on dirt paths or for camping. It gets 17-20mpg when I'm driving it but I don't want to drive it often. If th…

> I would feel very uncomfortable towing an empty 4x6 trailer behind my sedan, not to even mention the occasional couch or dresser or bunch of boxes from helping a friend move. Why? 1500 lbs rated tow hook on an average sedan should be no problem at all. And that's more than enough for a 4x6 with a couch and a couple of boxes. Might even get a slightly larger trailer so you don't have to take the couch apart. I've to…

I don't know the specifics but the US has some sort of strict requirement on Towing, such that vehicles like hatchbacks and sedans that have ubiquitous 1500lb towing ratings in Europe are not rated to tow at all in the US.

People mostly still do it though, because it's cheap and easy to do.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#929

Post by dcchambers »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #17

It's a shame the Lightning got discontinued. As an EV owner, it sucks that the main thing holding the technology back is misconceptions and misunderstanding, rather than actual practical matters. People think EVs are cars with tanks of electrons, and run aground the same way you would if you thought horses were cars full of hay. It's a different transport tool that gives the same results, you just have to know how to…

I don't think that's the only thing holding the technology back.

The only EV pickups in the US are like $60-$120K. Price is a huge barrier to entry.

Average sale price, per Gemini:

   - GMC Hummer EV: $105,600
   - Rivian R1T: $91,500
   - Tesla Cybertruck: $88,300
   - GMC Sierra EV: $82,500
   - Chevrolet Silverado EV: $78,200
   - Ford F-150 Lightning: $65,400
There needs to be a sub $40K EV pickup for it to be a real option for many.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#930

Post by BizarroLand »

dalyons wrote: post #734
BizarroLand wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I'm holding out for a 400 mile range vehicle is many fold. 1: Sometimes I actually do drive 400 miles in a single sitting, and I want to be able to keep doing that. 2: The last 10% of charge seems to take the longest. If I can safely fast charge in 20 minutes from 30 to 300 miles range, then I would have no range anxiety even when I'm on a long road trip. 3: I know the tech is coming, and I can wait until…

the rivian max variants are 400 mile range, you can buy one today.

The word "can" in your sentence is making some bold assumptions about my vehicle budget. The R1T Dual with Max battery (the combo that gets an estimated 400+ mile range) is $95,000.

That would be about a $1,300/month loan for 6 years.

I would either need to add $30,000 annual pre-tax to my income or to pay off every debt other than my house to even begin to consider that as an option, and there are so many other things I could spend $1,300/month on.

I will keep an eye on the used market though. I'm sure some deals will come up eventually.

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