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Eat Real Food

realfood.gov

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Re: Eat Real Food

#921

Post by aembleton »

gradientsrneat wrote: post #908

I've seen ultra-processed food mentioned in other countries as well. It's a buzzword with no meaning. Pasteurization saves lives. Flash-frozen foods retain more nutrition in transit, while freezing seafood kills parasites. And even the best bread and butter are as processed as food can get. I'm reading the "chemical additives" list and it's a mix of obviously harmful things with known safe things added in trace conce…

Even the original margarine (before the invention of hydrogenation) is more processed than the best bread and butter.

To quote from Ultra-Processed People:

Mège-Mouriès took cheap solid fat from a cow (suet), rendered it (heated it up with some water), digested it with some enzymes from a sheep stomach to break down the cellular tissue holding the fat together, then it was sieved, allowed to set, extruded from between two plates, bleached with acid, washed with water,warmed, and finally mixed with bicarb, milk protein, cow-udder tissue and annatto (a yellow food colouring derived from seeds of the achiote tree). The result was a spreadable, plausible butter substitute.

Re: Eat Real Food

#922

Post by tarentel »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #894
doctaj wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I saw that protein target, I knew there must be shenanigans… 0.5-0.7g per pound is within the range that BODY BUILDERS target for maximum hypertrophy (1g/lb is a myth that wastes peoples money). Eating 4-5 chicken breasts per day is ridiculous for a normal person.

quite off! You need at least 0.8g / kilo (referring to 0.4g / pound) if you are doing nothing heavy, like walking to the office. If you do moderate sports, you are hitting 1.0g / kilo immediately. If you do some more extensive sports, like 3 - 4 days / week in gym, you jumü to 1.2 - 1.4g / kilo. Bodybuilders are quite above :-)) Regarding the number of chicken breasts - scary for me, Im enough with a half one every s…

I am not sure if you're disagreeing with the original poster here but you're both saying the same thing in different units. 1g/kg != 1g/lb which is A LOT more protein and a complete waste of time. As a mostly vegetarian who lifts regularly, I am targeting a bit more than 1g/kg but being from the US it is a lot less than 1g/lb. :p

Re: Eat Real Food

#923

Post by eudamoniac »

fabbbbb wrote: post #292

Unfortunately there seems to be no good aligned definition of what (highly) processed food is. 1,2 Whole grain bread or infant formula can be “highly processed” despite very healthy. In the end someone else cooks for you and packages it. They can cook healthy or not or in between, add a lot of salt or little, .. as always it’s more complex. 1: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-022-01099-1 2 https://www.cambridge…

My personal definition: If it was impossible for ancient Romans to make this food, it's highly processed. I think this is a pretty good heuristic.

Re: Eat Real Food

#924

Post by broof »

socalgal2 wrote: post #903

Few ingredients is code for white people’s ideas of food. Example: Curry has and average of 10-15 ingredients. Malaysian 15-20. Thai: 15–20. China: 10–16. Indonesia: 20–25. Mexican Moles 20-30. Etc….. note: I expect this is unintentional. The authors of the new recommendations think more ingredients = processed. But it still ends up being an accidental judgement against other cultures. Indonesia — 20–25 Malaysia — 15…

I’m pretty sure there was a shot of curry in the video

Re: Eat Real Food

#925

Post by drstewart »

kristopolous wrote: post #581

Tyson foods and other meatpacking companies lobbied and funded RFK... Here's industry reports https://www.nationalbeefwire.com/doctors-group-applauds-comm... https://www.wattagnet.com/business-markets/policy-legislatio... And straight up lobbying groups https://www.nationalchickencouncil.org/new-dietary-guideline... https://www.meatinstitute.org/press/recommend-prioritizing-p... Lobbying groups, putting out press rel…

Did you mistakenly mean to reference Canada's highly corrupt as hell food guide?

https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/

Ctrl+F'd and didn't see any of those words mentioned a single time either. What a corrupt country Canada is.

Re: Eat Real Food

#926

Post by cruffle_duffle »

stef25 wrote: post #692
kristopolous wrote: post #581

Tyson foods and other meatpacking companies lobbied and funded RFK... Here's industry reports https://www.nationalbeefwire.com/doctors-group-applauds-comm... https://www.wattagnet.com/business-markets/policy-legislatio... And straight up lobbying groups https://www.nationalchickencouncil.org/new-dietary-guideline... https://www.meatinstitute.org/press/recommend-prioritizing-p... Lobbying groups, putting out press rel…

It's crazy how people are incapable of seeing something positive in the actions of the tribe they don't belong to.

Bingo. It’s pretty annoying. My tribe can do no wrong (in fact my tribe will freely point out its faults because again, it can do no wrong). Anything from the other tribe isn’t just wrong, it’s evil and all that is wrong with everything. Those guys are Neanderthals, not even worthy of telling the time to. My tribe is incredibly smart and gifted. We can do no wrong!

Unfortunately the only way to opt out is to basically stop participating at all. No more consumption of tribal news media and since most news media is incredibly tribal (even saying it’s not tribal is in fact tribal)… it basically means no more news media consumption. Which makes you uninformed instead of merely misinformed.

I dunno the solution to this. It’s a complex web of everybody playing to their incentives including the algorithms that aggregate things for consumption.

Again though, I’ll firmly emphasize that it is the other tribe that is wrong. My tribe isn’t biased or hateful or outrage driven. We say we aren’t so clearly it’s not possible.

Re: Eat Real Food

#927

Post by drstewart »

galoisscobi wrote: post #9

Ironic that a steak is one of the three things showing up on the landing page. Is that the beef lobby money coming in? I enjoy an occasional steak but if the goal is to improve diet of masses, it’s not the food I’d put at the center.

https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/food-guide-snapshot/

What is the top thing shown on the plate here?

Re: Eat Real Food

#928

Post by maerF0x0 »

socalgal2 wrote: post #903

Few ingredients is code for white people’s ideas of food. Example: Curry has and average of 10-15 ingredients. Malaysian 15-20. Thai: 15–20. China: 10–16. Indonesia: 20–25. Mexican Moles 20-30. Etc….. note: I expect this is unintentional. The authors of the new recommendations think more ingredients = processed. But it still ends up being an accidental judgement against other cultures. Indonesia — 20–25 Malaysia — 15…

It's an interesting point. I would suggest the its kinda recursive.

Good food ingredients are those which are or composed of Good food ingredients.

We can intuitively realize that A salad composed of Tomatoes, lettuce, radish, kale, cucumber, figs etc is at least as good as just eating Tomatoes. But each of those ingredients is a simple good food. IMO the issue is fractionation and concentration (and is weighted by dose). Corn on the cob, good. Corn syrup, bad.

Lots of the traditional dishes from the places you mentioned would be using very whole foods. Like a traditional, non industrial, mole is pretty much a gravy/sauce of very nutrition whole foods. But it's notable there is a highly processed equivalent in a jar.

Michael Pollan interestingly noted that when people cook food for themselves more or less from scratch they usually default to high quality whole foods because we often cannot make the low quality ultra-processed food in our own homes, they can only be made with industrial/factory equipment.

Re: Eat Real Food

#929

Post by drstewart »

clydethefrog wrote: post #272
Anonyneko wrote: post #18

I just refer to the official Finnish nutrition guidelines, they seem pretty reasonable. https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/en/foodstuffs/healthy-diet/nutri...

I liked the Canada food guide. https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/ Discussion in 2019: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18985017

Half of the criticisms in here apply 100% to Canada's guide, yet somehow the discussion about Canada back in 2019 doesn't include them.

Gee, I wonder why.

Re: Eat Real Food

#930

Post by audunw »

gradientsrneat wrote: post #908

I've seen ultra-processed food mentioned in other countries as well. It's a buzzword with no meaning. Pasteurization saves lives. Flash-frozen foods retain more nutrition in transit, while freezing seafood kills parasites. And even the best bread and butter are as processed as food can get. I'm reading the "chemical additives" list and it's a mix of obviously harmful things with known safe things added in trace conce…

Yes and no. It's not a good word, but it has generally been defined in a way that wouldn't include any of the steps you mentioned.

One common description is that it includes lots of ingredients you wouldn't find in your kitchen.

It sometimes also includes ingredients that have been turned into extremely fine powder, and other very heavy industrial processing. My way of thinking of this is: adults shouldn't eat baby food. Some fast food essentially becomes way to easy to absorb.

I think this interview had a really good description about the problems of the "ultra-processed" label.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAPgzCiSk9Y&t=377s

But at least the label is triggering some interesting discussions and awareness about bad aspects of industrial fast food.

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