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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#921

Post by vkou »

tomaskafka wrote: post #733
abustamam wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they ban you for a reason, you're screwed. Granted, the ban may have been warranted, but you're essentially put into a societal prison with no due process or recourse.

That is a great analogy. There are countries where a police can throw you into a lifetime jail with zero option for justice unless you are a famous person from a well known western country. Those countries are North Korea, Iran, Russia, Google and Apple.

The US has done just that to Abrego Garcia, and is now giving him the choice between confessing to a crime that he hasn't been convicted of (and likely didn't commit) and deportation to a country he has never been in.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#922

Post by patates »

dzikimarian wrote: post #739
patates wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, how you being on the Google/Apple ecosystem help the identification process?

You need Google/Apple blessed phone to install most banking apps

Yes but that doesn't help the identification process itself, does it?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#923

Post by 7373737373 »

carlosjobim wrote: post #633
7373737373 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious you don't understand what is written in those links. The capability security architecture breaks the false dichotomy of either having to have a fully locked down or open operating system, it provides the technical foundation to grant individual programs, and even parts of these programs, recursively, only the (data, filesystem, network) access and resource consumption (cpu, memory) rights that they need.…

I appreciate that I probably don't understand what is written in those links. But whether you're right or wrong - and you're probably right - phrasing your comment in the clichéd "gentle reminder" makes people refrain from taking your message to heart.

The grandparent comment wasn't mine, and I can kind of agree with yours. I can understand both of you, you in that the phrasing used may feel patronising. On the other hand, it is frustrating to know of a solution, of a good technical and theoretical foundation and see it ignored by the world at large. Hence probably the reminder phrasing used by the grandparent.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#924

Post by jpfromlondon »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #650
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

> If you decide you don't want a relationship with either of those companies you will be extremely disadvantaged. Even more worrying is the inverse of this - if Google and/or Apple decide for whatever reason they don't want a relationship with you (aka they ban you for no reason) - you are completely screwed

from an incredibly trivial perspective I was thinking about this recently when I discovered all games operate as saas products now, if for whatever reason you're banned then you can no longer play the product you purchased, what happened to third party mplayer servers?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#925

Post by pjmlp »

bigyabai wrote: post #898
pjmlp wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile FOSDEM and similar conferences are full of people carrying Apple devices, and most folks keep picking non-copyleft licenses instead of dual licensing. The Stallman generation is slowly leaving this realm, the opportunity has been lost already.

Sure is slow. The FOSDEM audience you're describing sounds identical to the one from 15 years ago.

Yes, which kind of shows what current generation cares about.

Yearly FOSDEM was all about carrying on devices where BSDs and Linux distros managed to run on, with all the FOSS ecosystem around them.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#926

Post by degamad »

cnst wrote: post #912
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

You can use the majority of the banking apps without a Google Account on an Android through the Aurora Store: * https://f-droid.org/packages/com.aurora.store/ I've tried it, it works. With Apple, it's all far worse. On iOS, I've discovered that even some preinstalled premium apps, like Pages, Numbers, Keynote, GarageBand, iMovie, don't work unless you add an Apple Account to the system. But with Android, it's relativ…

For now, but Google wants to take that option away.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#927

Post by epolanski »

kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

Just to point out, while everything you say is true, there are already similar life destroying mechanisms such as getting debanked.

A friend of mine owns a hotel in southern Italy, long story short during an investigation into mafia-related businesses his operation was also checked (and fully cleared as 100% unrelated to any wrong business whatsoever, it just ended in a cross examination).

Since those examinations involved quite a lot of checking/investigating money trails all banks refuse to service him again because he created a massive amount of work for their legal, compliance, etc offices, really massive.

As banks are privately owned entities they can refuse you services, or simply make your life that miserable that even if they comply with law (e.g. open you an account), they can still deny you any services that they aren't mandated by law of offering (payment processing is a simple one: no credit card processing, you can't work as an hotel) or just be as slow as possible when it comes to everything.

There are multiple things that are absolutely life-impacting as of 2025 that go beyond being tied to a handful of operating systems and their rules.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#928

Post by athrowaway3z »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #650
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

> If you decide you don't want a relationship with either of those companies you will be extremely disadvantaged. Even more worrying is the inverse of this - if Google and/or Apple decide for whatever reason they don't want a relationship with you (aka they ban you for no reason) - you are completely screwed

> Even more worrying

This is untrue.

It's a case of A leads to B and B requires A.

The most common antidote to anti-consumer behavior like this, is for the established parties to pull a dumb stunt and for competitor to eat their lunch.

If you can't bank without Google or Apple, all competition is dead on arrival.

If we have to politik the deplatforming rules of companies because they've taken complete control of the gates, we're doing the wrong politiking at the wrong place.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#929

Post by mike_hearn »

hollerith wrote: post #883
mike_hearn wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any program I run is allowed to silently edit, delete or steal anything I own ... there's currently no desktop environment that provides that ability Putting aside the philosophical issues, that statement isn't true for a few years now. It's not well known, even in very technical circles like HN, but macOS actually sandboxes every app: • All apps from outside the app store are always sandboxed to a lesser degree, e…

>It's the only OS that has managed this transition to all-sandboxed-all-the-time. Apps are all-sandboxed-all-the-time on iOS and Android, too; right?

Right, I should have said only desktop OS.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#930

Post by skeezyboy »

themafia wrote: post #516
pishpash wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protection period simply needs to be adjusted downward to reflect the faster pace of change. Rewarding 1700's technology pace today is asinine.

The original copyright from the 1700s was 14 years. You could file for an additional 14 years after that. It was extended starting in 1909 until the monstrosity it is today. We're far from the promotion of useful arts and sciences and instead guarding the likeness of a cartoon mouse.

but how would people be able to sell their crap on deviantart?
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