How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack • Hacker News Board

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#921

Post by TOMDM » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 11:12 AM UTC

harry8 wrote: post #918

TOMDM wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, comparing the two at this point is an attempt to pretend this insanity is the other side of the same coin. They're simply not. Look at the spectrum. 1. Someone commits a harm (pick any one of the harms I listed from Trump above) 2. Someone attempts a harm and either hasn't succeeded yet or fails 3. Someone threatens a harm against someone. 4. Someone makes a request that implies they could escalate to a threat of…

You don’t stand on principle don’t expect the principle to stand. No it’s them it’s always them…

My democracy for an example

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#922

Post by tasuki » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 11:12 AM UTC

vasco wrote: post #398

whatever1 wrote: post #268

As a European for decades in the US, it is the first time in my life that I feel fear for expressing my opinions. Ps does HN offer the capability of completely deleting the account and all of the comments ?

You can demand it under gdpr right to be forgotten and see where that gets you. Even being a US site they have to be compliant for EU users.

> Even being a US site they have to be compliant for EU users.

Why? What happens if not? EU-wide DNS ban? I haven't seen that yet...

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#923

Post by raxxorraxor » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 11:50 AM UTC

abeppu wrote: post #439

slibhb wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. The idea that it's somehow suspicious to be in favor of free speech has got to be one of the worst developments in American politics. And, for whatever it's worth, every vocal "free speech person" I know doesn't like the current administation. Some people actually just have…

I think the swerve that makes free speech absolutism less credible now than a generation ago is the prominence that lies and misinformation have gained in the discourse. I think you can still believe that any political, religious or economic view is fair to say/publish/broadcast as an ernest expression of perspective, and that even potentially hateful views inevitably come along for that ride. We tolerate the KKK pro…

That is the usual degradation of freedom of speech and not at all different from other cases before.

Some opinions hurt many sensibilities and the result is lacking support for most essential freedoms. This justification might seem more relevant to you, but with perspective it is the same reason others used to prohibit speech.

> When a person asserts that we need to protect speech which is intended to mislead, isn't it natural to be suspicious?

There is enough literature here to really weight this argument and the sad result is that you often defend the speech of scoundrels but it still is the better result.

Some people say it is natural to dislike different skin colors. The logic of your argument would generally be seen as short sighted and it certainly is in regards to freedom of speech. Again, a bit of literature exposure helps.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#924

Post by shadowgovt » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 11:52 AM UTC

fundad wrote: post #869

shadowgovt wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supreme Court Judges have careers that outlive Presidents. I think people consistently misinterpret the overturning of Roe (a calculated, focused effort that took decades and overturned specific judicial precedent that basically had created a right-to-privacy from whole cloth) with "Trump has SCOTUS in his pocket." He doesn't. The GOP got the two things they wanted from tilting the SCOTUS in their direction; there's…

This is assuming one needs to campaign in an election in order to continue their command of the executive branch and the military. I'm pretty sure the president's claim that he can serve a 3rd term means he'll serve for however long he determines, as an official act. Any court that dares issue an order to the contrary will have as little power to enforce their order as they are demonstrating now.

He could certainly kick off a Constitutional crisis by just ignoring the law, on that we agree. But that's always a risk. He could make a kill list of Congress members to assassinate starting alphabetically and it would be the same category of problem.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#925

Post by raxxorraxor » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 12:01 PM UTC

tstrimple wrote: post #581

Jensson wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> her race and gender (let's face it) was a threat to their ego. Its more common for right wing parties to elect a female leader than for left wing parties to, so if you look at leaders of countries most women are right wing. So if anything it is the left that has an issue with female leaders, not the right.

That perfectly explains why women make up 42% of the Democratic congressional body while only 15% for Republicans.

But it still directly contradicts the assumption of the parent and I would agree that it is a wrong judgement. Probably more a sentiment that was widely spread in Trumps opposition and perhaps this lack of judgement lead to a loss.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#926

Post by raxxorraxor » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 12:32 PM UTC

calf wrote: post #857

dragonwriter wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a really good compilation that should make any "free-speech absolutist" reconsider their support for the current administration. The adoption of the "free speech absolutist" brand by certain elements of the Right was never an honest statement of ideology, it was a smokescreen of Orwellian doublespeak for efforts to impose right-wing bias on platforms both by platform owners and by government regulatory effo…

Then the center-left Democrat progressives need to stop discussing the term "free speech absolutism" because it conceptually muddies the water. Leftists believe in free speech, freedom of inquiry, freedom of the press, even "burden of proof beyond doubt"--these are all liberal ideas. There's a mainstream pseudo-left that has decided to dispense with all nuance of these basic liberal values, and that is far worse in t…

You see the same thing in this thread. People mock free speech absolutists because Musk may have trolled them a year ago.

I believe this overall ineptitude will indeed not work in their favor and it is just a form of primitive reactionism.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#927

Post by fundad » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 1:58 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #924

fundad wrote: post #869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is assuming one needs to campaign in an election in order to continue their command of the executive branch and the military. I'm pretty sure the president's claim that he can serve a 3rd term means he'll serve for however long he determines, as an official act. Any court that dares issue an order to the contrary will have as little power to enforce their order as they are demonstrating now.

He could certainly kick off a Constitutional crisis by just ignoring the law, on that we agree. But that's always a risk. He could make a kill list of Congress members to assassinate starting alphabetically and it would be the same category of problem.

And the same people would defend it as not a constitutional crisis for whatever reason Fox News ran with.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#928

Post by HDThoreaun » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 2:01 PM UTC

tremon wrote: post #820

wrs wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we’re experiencing is a group exploiting the biggest vulnerability in the American system, one that was known to the founding fathers. If you can get enough people to vote for you and your friends, then all of the checks and balances will eventually fail against you, because in the end they’re all dependent on the populace not voting for people who corrupt the system. It probably wouldn’t have seemed plausible t…

Not entirely true, they did consider that possibility, and their solution was the electoral college: the only reason for its existence is as a safeguard against installing a populist president that would corrupt the system.

the electoral college exists because small states wouldnt sign the constitution without it

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#929

Post by beej71 » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 2:22 PM UTC

YZF wrote: post #548

beej71 wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is obviously not "just free speech". Sheesh. C'mon, man.

I am trying to make a point. Apparently very poorly. Either way, these Tesla protests are just idiotic. The vandalism is criminal. If this is the way Americans save their democracy and the rest of us rely on them then we're all doomed.

We're not relying on them! The vandals are so harmful to our cause they're on the other side.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#930

Post by amitport » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 2:22 PM UTC

sleight42 wrote: post #782

amitport wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mein camp is a all book also She is a Jew. There are much more Muslims running around with connections to other Muslims countries and businessness and you don't go around and calling it the Muslims kabal on every move any Muslim does. As I said, the fact the your post is not yet flagged is the biggest indicator to the coming collapse. You are an antisemite, despite your lack of understanding of it.

This is a common misunderstanding. Speaking against the current violent regime in Israel is anti-zionism and not anti-semitism.

"anti-zionism" is not the same objecting Israel's war against hostage holding Gaza.

anti-zionism is being against Jews living in their homeland, promotion of terror against them and pushing for them being ethnically cleansed. Connecting that goal to the aftermath of the genocide attempt by Palestinian and the recent war in 7 fronts to against Israel is most definitely anti-semitism.