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El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

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Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#921
post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why getting richer and richer becomes something bad when we go crypto? Is that sarcasm? It discourages any type of economic activity. Why would someone invest into or try to start a business when you can become richer by just sitting on your money pile with no risk. Artificially constricting the supply of money in a non static economy is a bad idea. Like the gold standard just much worse.

Any type of economic activity in USD involves paying rent or huge surplus to those who hoarded real estate (which doesn’t go away any soon). I don’t see the big difference here. Doesn’t mean it’s a good thing, but let’s at least apply the arguments symmetrically. Why would someone invest into or try to start a business when you can become richer by just sitting on your _property_ pile with no risk. Yeah, I guess.

> I don’t see the big difference here

Well that implies that you are more or less economically illiterate. I’m not talking about property and even renting residential/commercial property (as relatively safe as it is) does provide an actual service.

Anyway.. a very basic example, imagine you have $1000000, you can:

- keep it under your bed and lose 2% every year

- invest it into real estate etc. and make e.g. 4% every year.

- invest into the stock market and make 6%.

Now with a deflationary currency like bitcoin (or gold back in the mid to late 1800s) you can just hoard it and conservatively make 2-3% every year* invest into safe bonds and gain another 3-4%. Business would need to grow at an extremely fast pace to be able to attract much capital in such an environment.

* of course it’s only hypothetical. You’d need the economy to grow and productivity to increase YoY for this. That would be unlikely in any economy that used Bitcoin as its primary currency.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#922
post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Bukele has emprisoned a large part of the population for the rest of their life in concentration camps. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250128-no-way-out-gr... If he was killing them directly in gas chambers instead of letting them rot in prison, the population would be as safe, if not safer, forever. Would that still be "progressive" for you? Would you have supported Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal" too, a…

These people have made the affirmative choice to join gangs that terrorize law abiding citizens. Their choke hold on El Salvador has prevented others from living safe, prosperous lives (not to mention the countless people they've killed). Removing them from society is progress. The amount of utils gained by the large majority far outweighs those lost by these criminals. And frankly, it's a false equivalence anyway bc they're, y'know, criminals.

> Would you have supported Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal" too, at the time? Or sterilizing poor people? I mean, those are perfectly logical suggestions that would work, wouldn't they?

You have erected a startling number of straw men in your response. I'll ignore them.

We should do things that both work and benefit society. We should not do things that don't work. Here's a short an non-exhaustive list of "progressive" things that don't work: restorative justice, tolerating crime, allowing the destruction of the commons by the mentally ill and addicted, allowing criminals to be free and wreck society due to legal technicalities, bureaucracy, and corruption.

And thus, as I wrote previously, the word "progressive" seems to have fully inverted. Things that enable or create progress are called regressive, while things that are actually regressive and destructure are called progressive.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#923
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh yes, the age old “let’s use a precious metal to denominate our currency” idea. Cryptocurrency bros are literally speedrunning the entirety of monetary system failures. All of them. You’d think, maybe after the first couple they’d read a book or something? Heck no! YOLO!

Just to be clear, people who have downvoted you are likely doing so because of tone and attitude, not because they're pro-bitcoin.

[deleted]

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#924

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you explain their reasoning ? just curious (i'm a newb)

Sure: if I buy today, I’ll be richer tomorrow. Ergo, the exact reason it’s a horrible currency for the system. It’s really just the infamous libertarian inability to consider the needs of the system as separate but still important and sometimes in tension with the desires of the individual. It’s just a particularly goofy one because a deflationary currency very obviously cannot support an economy.

The US economy grew rapidly in the 19th century through long periods of deflation, particularly 1870-1896.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#925
post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any type of economic activity in USD involves paying rent or huge surplus to those who hoarded real estate (which doesn’t go away any soon). I don’t see the big difference here. Doesn’t mean it’s a good thing, but let’s at least apply the arguments symmetrically. Why would someone invest into or try to start a business when you can become richer by just sitting on your _property_ pile with no risk. Yeah, I guess.

> I don’t see the big difference here Well that implies that you are more or less economically illiterate. I’m not talking about property and even renting residential/commercial property (as relatively safe as it is) does provide an actual service. Anyway.. a very basic example, imagine you have $1000000, you can: - keep it under your bed and lose 2% every year - invest it into real estate etc. and make e.g. 4% every…

And I was talking about property. Replying about something else made no sense here.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#926

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sleep better at night knowing my savings aren't part of a massive Ponzi scheme that's going to one day leave lots of working class people holding the bag as the savings they invested in bitcoin are transferred to the wealthy insiders.

If you own a house you are part of a Ponzi scheme in most developed nations. Japan already has houses worth $0 because Japan has run out of population growth to keep the demand for houses growing. The same issue will occur in other countries that have low population growth. In New Zealand we have been importing people so house prices have been appreciating. However my impression is that other countries are competing…

Yes and that is absolutely a problem, houses should go down in value as they are used just like your car does. The fact that we've learned nothing from all the previous real estate bubbles and continue to use houses as investment opportunities is pure insanity.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#927
post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sleep better at night knowing my savings aren't part of a massive Ponzi scheme that's going to one day leave lots of working class people holding the bag as the savings they invested in bitcoin are transferred to the wealthy insiders.

Wait until you learn about social security.

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme by design, that's not a bug it's a feature. All participants are aware that they are paying into social security to redistribute that wealth to vulnerable individuals.

People are not paying into bitcoin expecting to redistribute their wealth to the insiders.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#928
post #335
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more rare than gold and getting more rare every 4 years. What is the current supply of gold and what will it be in 2050?

It is getting less less rare every 4 years.

In what way? I assume you know how the minting of coins work with miners

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#929

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment indicates that you fundamentally misunderstand BTC. I recommend reading Broken Money by Lyn Alden.

No, I get it, thank you very much. Early adopter of BTC here, I've read the whitepaper and all that, sodl when I realized what an energy pig it had become. The only thing that separates BTC from all the derivative shitcoins is hype and stories we tell about it. Bitcoin is itself interchangeable with an infinite number of related algorithms/schemes. Gold extraction definitely has its problems, but it's a fundamental e…

Are you going to stop using AI because it consumes too much energy?

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#930

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might have worked if El Salvador made their own cryptocurrency which they control and could mint more of and backed it properly as a non-speculative legal tender, but they didn’t and that didn’t happen.

Correct. The IMF can’t run its debt trap/looting playbook without more currency control

What playbook is this? Genuine question.
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