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Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

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Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#921

Post by fatbird »

loandbehold wrote: post #918
fatbird wrote: post #848

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine wasn't a candidate for NATO membership in 2014 or 2022, and this was agreed to in all major treaties/agreements with Russia. It's still not a candidate, and can't be while it's actively engaged in war. NATO membership has never had anything to do with it. Note how Finland has joined NATO since 2022, and faces no repercussions from Russia, despite a third of their land-based nuclear missiles within 400 km of t…

ChatGPT disagrees with you: Was Ukraine candidate for NATO? Yes, Ukraine has been a candidate for NATO membership. In 2008, during the Bucharest Summit, NATO members agreed that Ukraine would eventually become a member of the alliance. However, no formal invitation was extended at that time. COMMONS LIBRARY In 2010, under President Viktor Yanukovych, Ukraine adopted a non-aligned status, halting its pursuit of NATO m…

Nothing ChatGPT said disagrees what I wrote.

Between 2010 and later 2022 (i.e., not in 2014 or in February 2022) Ukraine was officially not pursuing membership, and France, Germany and the US were all unofficially making it clear that NATO membership was not being pursued and would not be offered.

Ukraine applied for NATO membership after Russia's invasion. It cannot therefore be a cause of Russia's invasion. At the time Russia sponsored and supported internal revolt in Crimea and Donbass, it was 2014 and Ukraine was officially and unofficially not in or applying to NATO--so how can that be the cause of Russian intervention then?

Thank you, though, for using ChatGPT to support my contention that NATO membership had nothing to do with Russia's invasion.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#922

Post by techbrovanguard »

fsloth wrote: post #838
loandbehold wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is responsible but not alone. This war could have been prevented by not pushing Ukraine into NATO. It's THE reason for the war.

That’s bullshit. I’m sorry, but I’m tired of apologists falling to Russian state lies. Falling over to Russian lies is not independent thinking. The first rule of kremnology is that Russia always lies without a shame, as lies are usefull and they incur zero cost on the liar. Russia invaded because they felt Ukraine was showing a bad example of slavic people becoming a democracy. Also Russia has always had an affinity…

> The first rule of kremnology is that Russia always lies without a shame, as lies are usefull and they incur zero cost on the liar.

you’re describing international relations, none of this is specific to russia. people are indoctrinated from birth into nationalist propaganda. when these mouthpieces speak they aren’t lying, but it’s not the truth.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#923

Post by rrr_oh_man »

kqr wrote: post #715
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A clever answer would be "it's a 50/50 chance, either it happens or it doesn't". That's statistics my simple brain can comprehend at least.

In what way is that clever? It's clearly wrong. If it were true, we'd experience three breakages at least 150 days of the year, every year.

[flagged]

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#924

Post by anon84873628 »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #480
anon84873628 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restraint is not weak and pathetic. If you accidentally pick a fight with a BJJ fighter, hope they are a black belt instead of a purple. Or to paraphrase Vladimir Kara-Murza, democracy will come to Russia. So far the west has been better off letting Putin tie his own noose.

First thing out of that russian "opposition" mouth after exchange was "Ukraine please stop resisting" and "Please stop the sanctions". There is nobody in russia to make democracy happen. Their "opposition" is just different shades of putinism.

While being a Putin opponent, he is also still Russian politician, and probably doesn't like seeing 1400 Russians killed on the battlefield each day.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#925

Post by m4rtink »

mempko wrote: post #26
philip1209 wrote: post #23

It seems that the obvious solution could be Starlink-style meshes. Can anybody comment on how fragile the Starlink protocol would be during a war? If its line-of-sight, presumably it would be hard to jam?

Did Russia make a threat to Elon Musk at some point that it would take down Starlink satellites?

Sure, let them try down 1700+ satellites, with new being put up multiple times a week by the dozens. Cant't even cause a proper Kessler Syndrome due to the low orbit.

Getting more and more Footfall vibes these days with Spacex already having a full orbital dominance. ;-)

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#926

Post by immibis »

inopinatus wrote: post #888
coldtea wrote: post #875

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Listening to people who probably proclaim themselves "anti-imperialists" give full-throated defenses of imperialism never gets old. Yeah, nothing like nato when it comes to anti-imperialism...

The entire matter of NATO expansion is irrelevant, a dancing monkey to distract the credulous.

You are talking to an Internet Research Agency employee.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#927

Post by trmaker103 »

deanCommie wrote: post #920
probably_wrong wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While a false flag operation cannot be ruled out, I don't think the case is as clear-cut as you suggest. > Nobody had incentive to blow up empty pipes except Russia. I disagree: Russian gas was the one leverage Russia had over Germany. Blowing the pipeline ensured that Germany wouldn't be able to get out of the conflict quietly - "Germany still receiving Russian gas" would not receive as much condemnation as "Germany…

I wish people took this incident to realize that Germany should be investing in energy independence, the way France had.

French nuclear industry maintains links with Russian giant Rosatom:

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/energies/article/2023/03/12/french...

What about the U.S., which is always holier than thou?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/14/climate/enriched-uranium-...

The U.S. banned it this year, 2 years after Nordstream was blown up, to the amusement and applause from Nuland etc.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#928

Post by immibis »

deanCommie wrote: post #919
mantas wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, Germany?

Your profile says you're in Lithuania. Lithuania is part of NATO. IF this was an officially sanctioned mission by a NATO country, then you're part of the "we". That's kind of the deal with alliances.

Hello Mr Internet Research Agency employee,

A random Lithuanian person is not Germany.

Hope this helps.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#929

Post by immibis »

pelasaco wrote: post #680
oneshtein wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delivery of Russian gas was stopped by Russia in violation of contract. European gas companies demands $20 billion in compensation. Nobody had incentive to blow up empty pipes except Russia. Of course, Russians used false flag as usual, to blame Ukraine, but Ukraine doesn't hide successful attacks on Russian infrastructure, because Ukraine has legal right to defend itself.

> Of course, Russians used false flag as usual, to blame Ukraine, but Ukraine doesn't hide successful attacks on Russian infrastructure, because Ukraine has legal right to defend itself. This is completely wrong. It involved German/Russian infrastructure, and if confirmed, it would rank as the worst terrorist act in the history of the FRG (Germany) since the Munich Olympic Games. In fact, it could, should, or would l…

A terrorist act is an act meant to cause terror. High natural gas prices, while they might be very inconvenient, are hardly terror in the same way as things usually described as terrorist acts, which usually involve civilians exploding at random.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#930

Post by immibis »

PKop wrote: post #180
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What business is that of ours? We are enabling it. They clearly want to fight! This is like arguing giving someone chemo is enabling their cancer.

Who is "they" and what is "clearly"? They are running out of men they can find to fight, and for quite a while the government and military used very aggressive methods to force men into service. There is a huge desertion problem, in the military and the country itself. A whole lot of Ukrainians do not want to fight. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ukraine-running-out-s...

I guess you're right. Ukraine should let Russia exterminate the Ukrainians. 3 times as many people will die as died in the German extermination regime, but it's worth it to avoid conscription, right?
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