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Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

theguardian.com

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Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#921

Post by parineum »

dev1ycan wrote: post #532
vessenes wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted your comment so that it has a bit of visibility because I know some people think this, but I disagree with it, very strongly. First, your analogy is broken -- roads, telephones, pen and paper, motor vehicles all fit your description just as aptly. Second, you propose your preferred moral economy as one that only curtails harms. In fact, you create another harm implementing what you think is right. Reasonabl…

While I agree that private communication should be a human right I also do think that your analogy is wrong. "roads, telephones, pen and paper, motor vehicles all fit your description just as aptly." All of those can be monitored by the government, even your letters could be.

What if you write your letters in a cipher?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#922

Post by parineum »

Kbelicius wrote: post #729
garrettgarcia wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stop there? By your logic, the owners of every ISP that provides a pathway for those criminal bits also should be in jail. Every single organization in that pathway would be liable from the registrars to the developers of web libraries or other app services. The governments themselves would be liable in many cases where the government has nationalized internet services. There is a principle in the free world that…

> Why stop there? By your logic, the owners of every ISP that provides a pathway for those criminal bits also should be in jail. No, that is by your own logic, not GPs. GP clearly said: "You can't just provide a service that knowingly provides a platform to criminal activity and do jack shit.". Considering that ISPs do something about that activity, by GPs logic, owners of ISP should not be in jail. Am I worng?

Telegram, an app known to be used for illegal activity, isn't blocked by French ISPs?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#923

Post by nephanth »

tamimio wrote: post #356
jfim wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One detail that's missing from the English article is why he got arrested. The French article mentions: Why was he under threat of a search warrant? The Justice considers that the absence of moderation, cooperation with law enforcement and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable numbers, cryptocurrencies...) makes him an accomplice to drug trafficking, child-crime offenses and swindling.

Just because he is the CEO doesn’t mean he is directly liable. The company is a separate entity. I don’t see anyone arresting Elon or other CEOs because of “not enough moderation.” Most actions are to block platform access. There must be something else for sure.

If a court orders twitter to take down a tweet, and twitter doesn't comply, then I believe anybody that is responsible for that inaction, including Elon if he was aware and didn't act may be tried

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#924

Post by panarky »

cryptonector wrote: post #623
panarky wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Durov is full of shit. He'd have you believe that all messages are welcome on Telegram, that no material is censored, that it's all about free expression, that they're too small to provide moderation. But when an account is flagged for spam, Telegram rapidly responds and restricts or kills the account. So they can and do moderate content. It's just that accounts can get flagged for CSAM hundreds of times and Telegram…

> But when an account is flagged for spam, Telegram rapidly responds [...] In my experience it's the channel's admins who respond, not Telegram's. If that's the case then CSAM not getting actioned is probably just channel admins allowing content that they approve of.

In my experience, CSAM accounts get flagged many times, channel owners remove the account from their channels, but the account continues to post the material elsewhere.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#925

Post by hnpolicestate »

exceptione wrote: post #761
hnpolicestate wrote: post #728

It's hard to respond to some of the commentary here. We truly exist mentally on different planets. The West wants Telegram destroyed because the platform permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc). This is in addition to the West not having a backdoor to Telegram and not having it's servers on Western soil. Why do you want you…

You are distracting from the issue: when law enforcement infiltrate into criminal telegram groups (drugs, child trafficking etc), they are for once doing their fucking job by ordering the platform to give them all the details they collect, so that they can come after those criminals. If Telegram did actually prioritize private and secure communication, they would indeed be just a data pipe and nothing could be shared…

I think this is projection. Claiming the arrest has to do drugs and child trafficking is distracting from the issue and the actual reason for the arrest. Which I outlined above.

I believe it's as incorrect as arguing the United States wants to ban or own Tik Tok because China has access to Americans private data.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#926

Post by hnpolicestate »

rfoo wrote: post #751
hnpolicestate wrote: post #728

It's hard to respond to some of the commentary here. We truly exist mentally on different planets. The West wants Telegram destroyed because the platform permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc). This is in addition to the West not having a backdoor to Telegram and not having it's servers on Western soil. Why do you want you…

If you really want to start a flamewar you can also casually mention the fact that Telegram also gives CCP major headache cause they don't control it and it's actually popular (unlike Signal) in China.

I can't comprehend how ensuring people other than me can read, see and talk about whatever they want is starting a flamewar. Like I said, I just exist mentally on another planet. Maybe universe.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#927

Post by victorbjorklund »

riedel wrote: post #890
mrtksn wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a system put in place against the legal system but it's not a technical limitation. For example, he will be able to look into the chats of his ex without the need of court orders of multiple unfriendly countries proving that the situation is grave and universal one. When the limitation is not technical, your only guarantee is the integrity of the operators and the lack of interest of your attackers coercing th…

Funny thing is that now Russia says they France needs to guarantee access to the Russian embassy for him (not really sure if he wants that). But wikipedia says he has UAE and French citizenship...

he 100% cooperates with FSB. That is why they happned to arrest the french ambassadors relative on drug charges today to be able to trade him.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#928

Post by hnpolicestate »

jorvi wrote: post #818
hnpolicestate wrote: post #728

It's hard to respond to some of the commentary here. We truly exist mentally on different planets. The West wants Telegram destroyed because the platform permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc). This is in addition to the West not having a backdoor to Telegram and not having it's servers on Western soil. Why do you want you…

I think you are living on a different planet. I am pretty staunchly pro-privacy, but this arrest has little to do with > permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc) It is about drug sales and extremism, that last one being about alt right / anti-vaccine crazies / terrorism, whatever else extremism du jour.

I don't see how you can maintain your privacy if it's possible you might believe some of the examples you listed. Certainly the state has to be sure you've never thought about those things. Privacy could thwart knowing.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#929

Post by hnpolicestate »

exceptione wrote: post #845
ilumanty wrote: post #829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If our democracy is as robust as our leaders advertise it, it should easily cope with extremism, anti-vaxxers and system opponents.

If the rule of law is robust, we should abolish the police. You are very mistaken. Democracy requires defense. Everyone can have its own stupid opinion, but that is not the point. Actively sabotaging society via campaigns is something any sane democratic society should defend against (all western "social" media are relentlessly hit by troll bots and disinformation campaigns, funded by your favorite dictatorships like…

The paradox of tolerance isn't real. Laws are real. Someone could argue for whatever they want. If the law says it cannot be implemented, it doesn't matter if they win an election. It's just about the law.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#930

Post by limit499karma »

lkfajw wrote: post #882
limit499karma wrote: post #869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The deputy speaker of the state Duma, Vladislav Davankov, said he had called on Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov to secure Durov’s release. “The arrest of [Durov] could have political motives and be a means of obtaining the personal data of Telegram users. We must not allow this,” he said on his Telegram channel." https://www.ft.com/content/c5d40e3c-9f9c-43dc-a467-1c713b40c... That makes me wonder if Telegram…

Yes, in case like Facebook it would be easy to say that it provides information to the U.S. gov. With Telegram, as you say, the Russian ban (somewhere around 2014) could have been designed to signal that Telegram is not run by the FSB. This arrest, on the other hand, could have been intended signal that Telegram is not run by the CIA. There have been a couple of house searches, extradition orders and YouTube bans all…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ut6RouSs0w

after watching Carlson's interview with Durov have come to think he may be the genuine article. Very interesting bit his relating us agents trying to recruit a dev and pushing some specified but alas unnamed oss libraries to use in Telegram.

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