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Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

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Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#921

Post by raydev »

lgkk wrote: post #273
atomicnumber3 wrote: post #16

Anecdata: I am 31 and have 3 young kids. They have 0 cousins and, on top of that, 0... second cousins? Cousins-once-removed? Whatever the one is for my cousin's kids. My kids are my grandma's only great-grandkids. And I have... 6 cousins. On top of that, at my last job, on my team of 15, I was the only one with kids, and only 1 of those 15 engineers were under the age of 30. At my current job, my team is 8, and again…

Might be due to some of us growing up really poor. I’m from a third world and I remember lack of water and electricity, five plus people crammed into a home the size of my current apartments living room. We used to use kerosene lamps and heat water and I grew up in the 90s. Even today my parents don’t own a home yet and they have rented their whole lives. They still work. It’s really up to me to resolve all our issue…

> Most of the people my age who are situated with kids and family are well to do.

Same here, but looking back to my hometown and how it is now, it wasn't this way even just 20 years ago. Now even well-to-do doesn't guarantee kids, and lower and middle class folks have simply stopped.

Which bothers me a lot. I think many people are catastrophizing themselves into thinking they can't afford it, and in a few decades we'll all be worse off. I'm especially tired of couples making more than $200k/year talking about how it's effectively child abuse to send their kids to public school, or if they can't somehow guarantee an Ivy League golden path then it just isn't worth it.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#922

Post by strikelaserclaw »

happiness_idx wrote: post #912
autoexec wrote: post #897

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the anecdata would say that we're closing on the point where millenials have chosen to simply not have children. I'd bet that that isn't a "choice" so much as it is that millennials are prevented by their circumstances from having the children they'd want to otherwise. If more people could actually afford to have kids and were more optimistic about the future I imagine we'd have a lot more babies around

It's quite peculiar to observe members of the tech community citing their circumstances as a barrier during a period of abundance and prosperity.

I think the better educated our species is thinking too much before having kids where as our parents and their ancestors kind of had kids and rolled with it. But even as a well earning tech guy, i can't help feel that being unemployed and being hit with one medical emergency can put my family on the street. In this time of abundance, i still feel like i'm being ground to dust by the man.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#923

Post by strikelaserclaw »

dotnet00 wrote: post #182
xyzelement wrote: post #141

I was lucky that my wife convinced me to move close to her family (it would have never occurred to me.) Now we live just a few doors down from her brother who's got 4 kids, and we have 2. Watching the cousins intermingle is an amazing and unique experience. It's kinda sad but it's also obvious that people are majorly missing out. On having kids, on living close to family, on all of it. Ironically, this is evolution i…

That would only make sense if the issue was biological and not socioeconomic. No one's getting selected out when the issue isn't a biological predisposition to avoiding procreation.

its not socioeconomic, if it was then all my poor ancestors wouldn't have had so many kids. It is basically educated people who want the "best" future for their child overly thinking and not having kids.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#924

Post by raydev »

autoexec wrote: post #897
lumost wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing this math frequently of late. I'm 35, have one child and of my high school class ... maybe 25% have children? there is certainly a bias from polling social media. But the anecdata would say that we're closing on the point where millenials have chosen to simply not have children.

> But the anecdata would say that we're closing on the point where millenials have chosen to simply not have children. I'd bet that that isn't a "choice" so much as it is that millennials are prevented by their circumstances from having the children they'd want to otherwise. If more people could actually afford to have kids and were more optimistic about the future I imagine we'd have a lot more babies around

> I'd bet that that isn't a "choice" so much as it is that millennials are prevented by their circumstances from having the children they'd want to otherwise

Taking a look at median incomes and housing costs across the US, I'd bet that millennials have become forward-thinking enough to plan for kids, but have gotten themselves worked up into thinking they must spend millions on getting into the best daycares, have separate rooms for each of their children, a guaranteed spot at university, etc.

Genuinely seems to me the decently well-off "involuntarily-childless" folks are worried to be committing a human rights violation by bringing a child into this world where they go to the public school they're zoned for. Or it's just cope and they are worried about reducing their living standards even just a little.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#925

Post by bottlepalm »

raydev wrote: post #921
lgkk wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be due to some of us growing up really poor. I’m from a third world and I remember lack of water and electricity, five plus people crammed into a home the size of my current apartments living room. We used to use kerosene lamps and heat water and I grew up in the 90s. Even today my parents don’t own a home yet and they have rented their whole lives. They still work. It’s really up to me to resolve all our issue…

> Most of the people my age who are situated with kids and family are well to do. Same here, but looking back to my hometown and how it is now, it wasn't this way even just 20 years ago. Now even well-to-do doesn't guarantee kids, and lower and middle class folks have simply stopped. Which bothers me a lot. I think many people are catastrophizing themselves into thinking they can't afford it, and in a few decades we'…

The truth is we've been so 'scared straight' about the difficulty of parenthood that many of us want nothing to do with it. Life is easier without them.. not as fulfilling sure, yadda yadda

But saying we can't afford it sounds a lot better. In most places in the world, and through time, less money corresponds to more kids. So it's easy to see though this excuse.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#926

Post by strikelaserclaw »

wtcactus wrote: post #525
ardaoweo wrote: post #334

Here in Finland apparently 50% of 35yo males, and 35% of 35yo females have no children. Fertility rate in 2023 was 1.26. In comparison, 2015 saw fertility rate of 1.65, and it has been below replacement level since 1969. 61% of under 40yo people live in rental apartments, this share having risen about 10% from 2010. Also, apartments built today are about 9 square meters smaller on average compares to 10 years ago. I…

One of my grandmothers, raised 3 children in a 1 bedroom house, alone (my grandfather died right after the youngest one was born). I see people now-a-days complaining that they don't have money, or space, or time and I just scoff at them. We aren't having children because society stopped seeing laziness as a negative trait. Everyone around us keeps telling us "you need to take time to focus on yourself": which usuall…

I agree that there are a large number of people who overthink having kids and so don't but i don't think not having children makes ones life 'empty' or 'unhappy'. Like everything, it really depends on an individual, some people thrive as parents, others really regret it.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#927

Post by mlrtime »

eropple wrote: post #674
mlrtime wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still more affordable housing in TX than anywhere in the US. Texas is building more than any other state (Florida is close). I just drove by a new development [in TX], with brand new homes that start at 1800/mo for a 3 Bedroom. Financing by the developer. So if you get out of Dallas or Austin you will find affordable housing.

How far do you have to drive to go to a supermarket from that development? To a library? (Silly me, expecting people to go to a library in 2024, right?) If Dallas or Houston or Austin had decent mass transit out to those areas that'd be one thing, but they wouldn't be very "mass", and therein lies one of the problems. Car culture increases isolation and generally shits up the world ever further; somewhere like a YOLO…

Just looked it up because I was curious. Mortgage + Real Estate tax is right at 1800/month. 4 Bed / 2 Bath, new construction. Kroger is 3 miles away with a "cash and go" type place even closer, so about 8 min by car, 20 min by bike.

Point remains, that there is plenty of affordable housing in the US. It's just not where people want to live, thus supply/demand.

No amount of "fuckcars" ideology will matter here, some people actually prefer driving. I know I do, I don't want to be stuck in a subway or bus.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#928

Post by mlrtime »

pixl97 wrote: post #699
mlrtime wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still more affordable housing in TX than anywhere in the US. Texas is building more than any other state (Florida is close). I just drove by a new development [in TX], with brand new homes that start at 1800/mo for a 3 Bedroom. Financing by the developer. So if you get out of Dallas or Austin you will find affordable housing.

Telling the monthly rate in Texas is not a great metric in general... you must always add the property tax costs. What are those, 300k'ish houses? You're probably looking at at least another 500 a month in properly tax pushing it up to $2300, then if they are built like this add another $200 in for summer time cooling. That is not affordable housing.

1800/month including tax. Real estate tax is high in TX, but not income tax. I prefer this taxation which has to come from somewhere. NYC has high income tax and real estate tax, and the grocery options could still be not close at all.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#929

Post by raydev »

rayiner wrote: post #911
autoexec wrote: post #897

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the anecdata would say that we're closing on the point where millenials have chosen to simply not have children. I'd bet that that isn't a "choice" so much as it is that millennials are prevented by their circumstances from having the children they'd want to otherwise. If more people could actually afford to have kids and were more optimistic about the future I imagine we'd have a lot more babies around

It’s absolutely a choice. That’s obvious because the millennials with the most money and education are the ones having the fewest kids. It’s downtown SF that’s childless. Working class parts of Dallas are bustling with kids. It’s not that millennials can’t afford to have kids. It’s that they’re too self-centered and unwilling to endure the lifestyle hit for doing so.

I'm willing to accept that they feel like their situation is precarious when it actually isn't, because I've certainly been there. But I also overcame it when I realized I wasn't actually thinking everything through.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#930

Post by strikelaserclaw »

VirusNewbie wrote: post #885
conradludgate wrote: post #353

Why are people so obsessed about it I have children? I'm married and we've decided we don't want to have kids. It really bothers me when people say "oh you're missing out, that's such a shame". Please think about what you are saying. It doesn't matter if I'm gay, infertile, poor, depressed, or just don't want them. Please keep your judgements to yourself or even just stop judging others.

My wife spent 35 years of her life never wanting kids, and suddenly was 51% for trying to see if we could have a kid, with much trepidation. It worked out, and almost every day, certainly every week, she says she's so thankful she changed her mind just enough that she could be a mom. It is nothing like she envisioned it. We also have friends who didn't want kids and then regretted it, and my wife sees her self in tho…

I mean, i also know tons of bad parent who judging by their actions don't seem like they enjoy being parents that much. You should only have children if you really want to have them and not because other people are doing it.
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