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Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

ln.hixie.ch

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Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#921

Post by julianozen »

kllrnohj wrote: post #546
munificent wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of reasonable metrics one might use to define "leading mobile app development framework": * Number of developers using it on some daily/weekly/monthly, etc. cadence. * Number of apps published (to iOS, Android, both). * Number of jobs available using the framework. * Various subjective desirability metrics from developers survey like the StackOverflow ones. It's anyone's guess as to which is the best…

When filtered to "cross platform mobile app frameworks" anyway, which is a huge reduction in scope - 1/3rd of respondents in that study in fact. So 46% of 33% of mobile app developers that aren't building mobile websites use Flutter. That's not bad at all, but hardly supports a claim of being the "leading mobile app development framework" as you're down to ~15% of mobile app developers using it. And only then since m…

Well assuming Swift and Kotlin split the remaining half 50/50 (I think this is reasonable as most major apps are on both platforms and it is unlikely to use Swit for iOS but flutter for Android), they're probably only 25% each.

Unless you want to count them both as Native at 50%?

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#922

Post by surajrmal »

andromeduck wrote: post #689
fragmede wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5, 10, 20 years from now, an unproven startup that doesn't manage to find product-market will equally be gone and unavailable to customers. Why does, eg Monday.com not get the same "oh no, what if they shut down" scaries that stops people from using their product the way, say, Google keep does? Fair or not, it's some quirk of human psychology that unfortunately Google has tapped into.

Because shuttering the business would be an existential threat while Google routinely shutters what would otherwise be successful business like domains/inbox/travel/reader/cloud print/code/podcasts, or otherwise refuses to treat with the level of seriousness/vision required to long term success like stadia/Chrome OS/Nest/plus/news etc.

The teams running products see it as an existential threat. Google shutting down the product is closer to an investor or board member forcing a startup to shut down because it's not long term sustainable. None of the things you mentioned could be run as independent businesses successfully, at least not at the levels of funding Google was giving them prior to them being shut down.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#924

Post by hendler »

Excellent and succinct description of risk to all institutions

> Google's culture eroded. Decisions went from being made for the benefit of users, to the benefit of Google, to the benefit of whoever was making the decision.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#925

Post by hbn »

kllrnohj wrote: post #546
munificent wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of reasonable metrics one might use to define "leading mobile app development framework": * Number of developers using it on some daily/weekly/monthly, etc. cadence. * Number of apps published (to iOS, Android, both). * Number of jobs available using the framework. * Various subjective desirability metrics from developers survey like the StackOverflow ones. It's anyone's guess as to which is the best…

When filtered to "cross platform mobile app frameworks" anyway, which is a huge reduction in scope - 1/3rd of respondents in that study in fact. So 46% of 33% of mobile app developers that aren't building mobile websites use Flutter. That's not bad at all, but hardly supports a claim of being the "leading mobile app development framework" as you're down to ~15% of mobile app developers using it. And only then since m…

To add to this, perhaps anecdotal but I've noticed Flutter to be in that specific area of people who like it and use it feel like they're underdogs, fighting in the war to make it the next big thing. It's not the default way to write an app on either Android nor iOS, so they're vocal about spreading the word and getting/keeping momentum.

People who use Swift/UIKit to make apps may like it, but it's also the default way to make an iOS app, so they don't feel the need to fight a war. That language was handed down from above as the winner of iOS development. Same for Java/Kotlin/native UI libraries on Android.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#926

Post by _the_inflator »

ddejohn wrote: post #691
_the_inflator wrote: post #288

I give Hixie exactly this: he is not brownnosing and he openly speaks up. There is nothing insulting from his side, and I personally like people with the standards Hixie has. It sounds like he acted internally in the same way which is fine. Hixie has seen some things at Google. I will be forever thankful to him for realizing HTML5. I read many document changes back then and when people left out of protest or whatever…

> The web would not be what it is like without him. As somebody that really dislikes the way the web generally is nowadays I got a chuckle out of this :) This is a mostly tongue-in-cheek comment.

I totally side with you, I had exactly this in mind, too. :)

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#927

Post by voytec »

pardoned_turkey wrote: post #86

Ian's post is pretty incisive, although I've read so many of these over the past 15 years or so. And the prescription is always to go back in time. I don't really think that's possible. When you're a newcomer, a disruptor, the whole point is to be different. You're bold, you have a clarity of purpose, you say things like "we're building a new kind of a company" or "the user comes first." But once you achieve market d…

> Ian's post is pretty incisive, although I've read so many of these over the past 15 years or so. And the prescription is always to go back in time.

My take from this post is not "go back in time" but "restore vision[ary management]":

> Much of these problems with Google today stem from a lack of visionary leadership from Sundar Pichai, and his clear lack of interest in maintaining the cultural norms of early Google.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#928

Post by logical42 »

mk89 wrote: post #863
closeparen wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silos and fiefdoms allow small gelled teams who know and trust each other, have similar levels of competence, and sit physically near each other to put their heads down and execute with extraordinary speed and quality. Once silos are broken down and cross-team/cross-org collaboration becomes valorized, everything is strangers and Zoom meetings and time zones and Process and maybe if you’re lucky one person in your pa…

Breaking down silos de-risks a company, despite some of the costs you mentioned. Especially after covid, companies capitalize on the flexibility of employees and lack of (physical) offices. Employees can be replaced like never before. But even without that in mind, breaking silos can also put the right people in the loop - for every successful silo you mentioned, I bet there is a successful company which was able to…

Counterpoint: Apple has been quite successful despite their insistence in silos across teams and orgs.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#929

Post by yterdy »

ot1138 wrote: post #739
yterdy wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Wow. Yes, there's absolutely zero criticism of white males these days.

Not of non-public figures, not this acerbically, not singled-out, on the front page of HN, with most of the comment section assuming that every word must be true without having ever met them. The Old Boys' Club is real and it would be career suicide.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#930

Post by 3seashells »

surgical_fire wrote: post #423
3seashells wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To close to home for many? Then again this is what life is about from moralphilosophical view. A body horror show with a "what have I become" at the end? Spoilers not welcome?

This presumes that people with no children are somehow less horrible. In truth, all humans are equally worthless.

Less incentives to be all out horrific in large groups with distributed responsibilities?
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