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I wish GPT4 had never happened

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Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#921

Post by weatherlite »

HealthNeed wrote: post #633
ericbarrett wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is a ratchet. It doesn't die, or retire, or change careers. Once it's good at something, it stays good. Once it gets better at something, it stays better. (If not, the model is disposed of without pity or remorse.) Right now, it may make you better at your job. But your very use of it is training it to do your job. It seems to me that if AI is currently helpful to you, it is likely to eventually replace you. And m…

What does "take it seriously" mean? For me, taking it seriously means that I am trying to use it as multiplier to be better at my own job. Is there some better course of action you think we should be taking? I personally do not think it is going anywhere, so I figure I had better be the expert.

IDK saving money? Make your life more about just your career like some people do? Train mental resilience? Learn a new skill? Vote better politicians who actually talk about this as a real problem?

We can all do a lot about this. Not saying it's easy though.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#922

Post by throwaway8689 »

phkahler wrote: post #505
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #29

The big oversight here is that Priya does not want a job , what Priya wants is an income . The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income .

>> To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income. What is income? What is it used for? Answers: it's a reward for work. And it is used as an incentive to get others to work.

Other income comes from inheritance, investments, gifts. None of those should be assumed to be incentives to get the recepient to work.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#923

Post by akra »

pixl97 wrote: post #166
ehnto wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect we'll adjust the status quo for decades yet. The internet projects a lot of negative sentiment, but I suspect most people are happy scraping by so long as they have a roof and some entertainment. Even proactive people are made to believe they are just one more "rise and grind" away from being a millionaire, they want to be succesful in this society, so they have no desire to tear it down. What could bring th…

Heh, I see we're following the Manna timeline https://marshallbrain.com/manna1

Still a potential possibility - sadly IMO more so than the utopia vision of AI; thanks for reminding me of this. We simply become fodder for the things AI can't reasonably do in the "real world" until it can with the owners of the systems living it up. At that point the rich/political class have no need for the "rest of us", live the high life and the rest of the population is a "problem" that has to be managed by the state creating mass inequality.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#924

Post by MrDresden »

netbioserror wrote: post #86
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #29

The big oversight here is that Priya does not want a job , what Priya wants is an income . The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income .

What a profoundly naive opinion. Most people find meaning, fulfillment, even contentment in working, especially when the problems are engaging and the solutions produce value. Many people claim their lives would be better if they never had to work, but they are bullshitting themselves with childhood naivete. Not working is a sucking void of boredom, nihilism, hedonism, and despair. I've been through some of that befo…

Spoken like someone with the privilege of choice and completely blind to it.

How many in this world simply have not had the chance to educate them selves, been lucky with timing or knowing the right people to get the nice jobs where they are listened to and even looked up to?

Where they not only get a salary where they can survive off it without working a second or third job, but are also able to save up some buffer.

That they might actually afford to get out from under landloards that continuously increase their rents, and buy a property of their own.

And so on and so forth.

Your comment drips ignorance on the daily hardships huge swaths of the human population on this planet (including a large group in the rich western world as well) have to go through every day, and the propable relative luxury of your situation compared to theirs.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#925

Post by kazinator »

tarsinge wrote: post #912
cambaceres wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know what country you live in, but I can tell you how it is in Sweden. As a freelancer I pay appropriately 70% of what I charge in taxes. How high do you think taxes can get before people stop putting energy into raising their productivity?

Better distribution is through capital tax, not income tax. Taxing workers even more is the opposite of sharing productivity gains captured by shareholders. Are capital gains and dividends taxed at least at 70% in Sweden?

1. Salary is your company's money that becomes your money.

2. Capital tax is tax on your company's money.

3. Income tax is tax on your money.

With either tax, the economic system that consists of you and your employer is being robbed.

Speaking of which, if someone takes your groceries and runs, just before you have paid for them, that is shoplifting. If it's just after you paid, it's robbery. You might think you're better off with the former, but shoplifting raises prices; some of it is shifted onto you, so that it is effectively robbery.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#926

Post by famahar »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #897
famahar wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't found a fulfilling purpose outside of a job then. There was a period in my life where I didn't need to work for a year. I spent it reading books, supporting my friends, exploring my city on bike, learning an instrument, and creating art (which I would show at monthly events). It was way more fulfilling than any job I've had.

Sometimes I get this feeling that most people here are not actually interested in tech, it is just a paycheck. Difference is that I would do my job even if I wasn’t paid anything at all.

I think most people here love tech. They just hate having to use / build tech in a toxic work environment. I'm happy you found a work environment that lets you fully explore your passion.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#927

Post by Giorgi »

yashap wrote: post #790
Giorgi wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Great Filter.

Sort of, but not exactly. The Great Filter is meant to be an explanation for “why isn’t the Milky Way full of colonies”, but if the answer is “AI kills off civilizations before a colonization explosion”, we should still see AI colonies, probably?

Not if AI forces people into global hunger then into nuclear war and then humanity destroys everything including AI

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#928

Post by v0id24 »

cambaceres wrote: post #749
HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

I don’t know what country you live in, but I can tell you how it is in Sweden. As a freelancer I pay appropriately 70% of what I charge in taxes. How high do you think taxes can get before people stop putting energy into raising their productivity?

by tax revenues In China, corporations pay more than 2 times more taxes than individuals (in the US, individuals pay almost 6 times more taxes than corporations). China: corporate income tax (19%), individual income tax (7%) USA: corporate income tax (7.6%), individual income tax (41.1%)

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#929

Post by OOPMan »

HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

Ah yes, I'm sure you have a solution from one of the most difficult problems ever?

It's easy to condemn the system but without a solution you're just barking in the wind...

Just to be clear, I also think there are major issues with "the system", but I also don't think this is an easy problem to solve or everyone would be living in magical happy land already...

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#930

Post by mckravchyk »

hnfong wrote: post #379
danShumway wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Work" above is being used in a more specific form than you are using it. GP is not referring to all productive work, they are specifically referring to employment on the market. Yes, human beings are better in relationships and better when they help each other, but GP is not talking about abolishing helping other people or doing meaningful things. There are a huge number of things people can do to meaningfully make…

I generally agree with you in principle, but it’s not a given that you can find meaning outside of the job market if the market doesn’t find your labor valuable. What if nobody actually wants your “help”? What if your labor is not only worthless in the job market, but also in general, where people prefer assistance from AI instead of from a live human person? What if no matter what you do, some AI does it better? How…

I think there are 3 factions in a world where AI took out most jobs (with UBI of course):

#1 There will always be jobs requiring humans - jobs that require human interaction. The supply will be much smaller, but so will be the demand.

#2 By the time AI replaces all jobs, we will most likely have a very realistic VR with multiplayer capabilities. I think that many people will live adventures in such world and spend most of their waking hours in it. Metaverse sucks but it's only because it's so artificial. If you could have tech that could integrate with your senses directly, giving experiences on par with the sharpest lucid dream... that's going to be much different and for better or worse, a lot of people will get sucked into it. Of course, it's going suck - life is about yin-yang, endless pleasure is not good. People who will end up spending the majority of their time in such VR will not be unlike drug addicts, unless they will also be doing activities that require mental & "physical" engagement (I think one of the coolest thing that could arise out of it are new sports that would not be possible in the real world), however, that yin-yang balance would be hard to achieve when there's no evolutionary pressure combined with overabundance of simple pleasure that's just available all the time.

#3 Walking the path to mastery in some pursuit - i.e. artistic, athletic, a craft. There's pure joy in just getting better at something and enjoying every day of practice and most importantly - feeling challenged which is a primal need. It may be competitive as heck to get some recognition or play in the big leagues (which would be more like #1), but that would be just a bonus from that perspective.

If AI leaves us nothing to do, then #3 will always be available. AI will not take away our own engagement but engagement requires effort and so, I would bet that a significant majority will overindulge in #2 to their unconscious doom - I guess it will still be a pretty cool experience though and it's not like those people will not have a choice to get out.

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