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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#921

Post by MuffinFlavored »

Swizec wrote: post #247
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used ChatGPT to help talk through this with me: > If the average waiter works a dinner shift from 5pm-11pm, waits on 40 customers during this shift, each customer has a check average of $40 and tips on average 20%, the waiter would walk with $320 in tips. > In this example, the total cost of labor for the waiter is $55/hr for 6 hours, which is $55*6 = $330. The total number of customers served during the shift is 4…

My argument is that I’m already paying $48.25 per check and don’t particularly care about the restaurant’s cost structure. Passing wages (and in SF health care) onto me feels about as petty as an attorney adding “$5 for pens” into a $4000 invoice. I’m still sore about that 3 years later.

I'm sorry, you are 100% right. I don't know why I thought it was more complicated than that. Thank you for pointing this out to me.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#922

Post by MuffinFlavored »

courgette wrote: post #812
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The followup argument is often "well they are still being under paid." While I can buy this argument, I do not think the solution is tipping The alternative is getting a restaurant to entirely change its identity. Their POS system will always have a spot for tip on a receipt. Their prices are based on the fact that they expect customers to tip the servers at least 15-25%. It's a monumental change. It's not just "pa…

Honest question : how do you think it works literally anywhere outside of Canada and the US? We have bar and restaurants, too. People working there have kids, mortgage. I would even say that it’s more a “real” job than in the US. “Real”, in the sense that, in the US, I’ve seen friends in their 40’s switching industry because they want to have kids. While for instance in France their is actual school you go to before…

> how do you think it works literally anywhere outside of Canada and the US?

Being 100% honest, I was of the opinion that because of tipping in America, waiters/waitresses stand a chance to make $150-$300+ whereas in Europe, you probably make less than that.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#923

Post by gymbeaux »

jrmg wrote: post #540
gymbeaux wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw one of those “mind blown!” sorts of posts on Facebook the other day that I haven’t been able to really reconcile in my head because it both makes sense and doesn’t make sense. The gist was that if everybody is paying with credit cards, $50 will eventually whittle down to $0 because AmEx, et. Al. got $50 worth of fees after so many transactions (accountant pays grocer who pays dentist who pays hygienist who pays…

This feels plausible but I think it is really nonsense. Processing fees are not unique to cash. Banks charge cash processing fees to businesses too, and have for ever. Most shops will deposit all the cash received at the end of the day - perhaps every few days - with a bank.

That's true- everyone with a checking account pays a "fee", even if that's in the form of "allowing the bank to loan your money out to make more money"... except for maybe USAA. Their checking accounts are free, no account minimums, and they even pay a little bit in interest. Not just anyone can get a USAA checking account though so I guess that doesn't really count.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#924

Post by getoffmyyawn »

oh_sigh wrote: post #477
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The followup argument is often "well they are still being under paid." While I can buy this argument, I do not think the solution is tipping The alternative is getting a restaurant to entirely change its identity. Their POS system will always have a spot for tip on a receipt. Their prices are based on the fact that they expect customers to tip the servers at least 15-25%. It's a monumental change. It's not just "pa…

Perhaps we just need a quick break where customers realize that they're paying for the service, one way or another. Your hamburger costing $20 and you leaving $5 is no different from your hamburger costing $25. It's really only the poor tippers who shouldn't want this transition to a fixed wage with the costs added to the food. Currently, they're getting subsidized service from good tippers.

For what you say to be true, it relies on everyone tipping the same amount all the time. The problem is that people do not tip this way. Tipping in the USA has been studied for 25+ years and the results are clear: The amount a given waiter will receive in tips is far more influenced by their physical appearance, race, and gender, than the quality of service they provide.

For example, a white woman with blonde hair and large breasts will, all things being equal, make more in tips than anyone else working in the same establishment[0].

Paying $25 for that burger is fine if that is the advertised price. Everyone in the service industry deserves to be paid an equal wage for equal quality of work. Despite all intentions, tipping ensures this is not the case. That alone is enough to justify abolishing tipping as a form of primary compensation.

0. https://static.secure.website/wscfus/5261551/uploads/ServerA...

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#925

Post by ciupicri »

courgette wrote: post #791
rapht wrote: post #784

To me, this relates to a broader subject: the way prices are displayed. In Europe, laws basically mandate that what you as a customer see on a price tag or price list, is what you ultimately pay. You don't have to do any guesswork, looking at the fine print, compute anything in your head. You pay the price that is displayed, and there should be no expectation from any one that you pay anything above that. When I go t…

the tax being calculated separately seems suspiciously petty to my French ass. I’m used to it now, but the only rational I could find by asking around “why is the tax not part of the final displayed price” were : - “it depends from state to state.” Taxes are also different in Spain, France, Germany and Italy … we use the same currency and we don’t feel the urge to display our taxes by removing them from the displayed…

American taxes vary way more than in Europe. You walk a mile to a nearby town and suddenly it's a different tax. Not by much, it's like less than one percent, but still.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#926

Post by cptskippy »

jacktribe wrote: post #565
mnky9800n wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The review feedback program sounds like over engineered nonsense. You get metrics which you think represents customer experience which you can use to evaluate and motivate your employees to act a certain in this coffee fueled skinner box designed to train baristas. But the data won't represent that, the interaction with a barista is only a small fraction of what makes a coffee shop good (first should be good coffee,…

While profit sharing may work as an incentive for shift managers or store managers, in the absence of tips most baristas will expect some other immediate bonus pay, preferably based on a measurable metric that doesn't depend on factors beyond the barista's control, such as cost of goods sold, supply chain constraints, rent hikes, recessions, etc. If you occasionally ask the customer in-app "how was your service today…

Actually what you've done is devised a system for you to steal you staff's tips.

Instead of customers having the option to pay extra in the form of tips, you're charging more. By having a review/bonus system, you're still absolving yourself of the responsibility for fairly compensating your staff. You're shifting the burden of evaluating employee performance onto your customer. And you're incentivizing yourself to limit bonuses because that money goes into your pocket.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#927

Post by valdiorn »

hedora wrote: post #267
ntr-- wrote: post #83

> Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed Here in AU we call that "wages". Having to do quick maths while under social pressure and the threat of having your service quality degraded to make up for an employer or state being unwilling to pay workers enough to live might be called "coercion", but certainly it is externalising costs onto the cus…

The US faced a dilemma: Post civil war, many people didn't want to pay freed slaves for their labor. A combination of tipping and converting jobs that were typically held by blacks to unpaid positions provided a solution. It became popular despite attempts to ban the practice. Today, tipped workers in the US are paid, but have a lower minimum wage than normal workers. Source: https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-…

If there's anything we could actually call "institutionalised racism", I think tipping culture fits the bill.

It's a system literally implemented because a large portion of society didn't want to pay black people wages.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#928

Post by nayuki »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #369
nayuki wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tipping situation is numerically very similar in Canada, unsurprisingly. But at least in Canada, the waiter brings a wireless point-of-sale machine to the table for you to pay. Whereas in American, they take your credit card all the way to the cash register (unsafe!), bring the receipt to your table, make you write the tip and total on the receipt, and collect the receipt.

There’s handheld machines now at American restaurants which have a very bold tip screen. At the one I see it at, the waiter (who usually only took our order, didn’t even fill drinks, bring food, etc) holds it towards me and says “tip?” instead of the common “it’ll ask you a few questions”. Maybe it’s a clover POS system?

Handheld POS terminals exist in America but I found them to be rare. When I was in New Orleans last year and went to a bunch of restaurants, 9 out of 10 of them had the traditional opaque payment system. Only at one restaurant did I I experience the waiter bringing the wireless POS to my table.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#929

Post by jpcfl »

jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

I tried this when I started my popup restaurant. I rolled taxes into my prices, and didn’t ask for tip when collecting with Square. I did this because I love the simplicity of dining in Europe, where you pay exactly the price you see, and don’t get guilt tripped at the register.

My customers complained that my prices were too high. So, I lowered my prices, added tax, then asked for a tip. About 50% of people tip, so my profits have actually gone up on average after this adjustment. People seem to be buying more, too.

I hate it, but this model seems to work better from a business perspective, despite it being a worse customer experience (subjective, I know).

How do you train your customers not to have sticker shock? Do I need to hang a banner that says “TAX AND TIP INCLUDED IN ALL PRICES” in comic sans?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#930

Post by cptskippy »

brk wrote: post #852
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

If customers rate their order and interaction with the barista to be satisfactory, a bonus payment will be made to the baristas on shift. As a customer, please just leave well enough alone. I'd really prefer to just leave a tip if I'm going to be gently shamed into leaving reviews to make sure your employees somehow get the wages they were led to believe they would earn. I would go a bit out of my way to frequent any…

But with his system, he gets to charge you extra and can deny staff bonuses. It's like stealing tips but more legal.
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