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What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

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Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#921

Post by moistly »

dang wrote: post #915
moistly wrote: post #893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You broke the site guidelines extremely, horribly, and repeatedly in this thread. If you do that again we will ban you. We've had to ask you this more than once before. You can't vandalize HN like this, no matter how right you are or feel you are. And you've done it elsewhere recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33148354 . That's not ok. I actually banned you just now, but decided to undo it because the oth…

If you ban me, could you also please ban the ignorant racist that kicked off this sub thread. And the one in the other thread. Thanks. Hate to see HN giving these guys a platform.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#922

Post by raxxorraxor »

PKop wrote: post #856
tanseydavid wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is equality of opportunity. Of course, it is not possible to implement this in any grand, all-encompassing, perfect manner. But that does not mean that it shouldn't be a goal.

Unequal outcomes will produce unequal future opportunities. This fact undermines any of premise from that start. And compelled equalization will commence just the same. So this is a distinction without much of a difference. Certainly rule of law and various good faith attempts to provide opportunity are understandable. But when the outcomes simply are not equal along various group identity lines or this or that inter…

You cannot make everyone equal. Freedom and equality collide at some point. People need to grow out of that assumption because acceptance of that fact can alleviate cases of injustice. You are not solving any problems with such a strategy, you only make everything worse.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#923

Post by pwdisswordfish9 »

telltruth wrote: post #638
Dig1t wrote: post #382

I work at a different FAANG and it seems like more and more the only news that we get from corporate is related to DEI. Also a lot of hiring details are now hidden from ICs. It used to be that you would be apart of the interview panel as an interviewer and then you would get together with your team afterwards and everyone on the team would vote yes/no and that would pretty much be it. Now it’s made by a manager elsew…

There is a silver lining. This DEI thing is now causing massive influx of sub-par employees in big tech. This is not because minority is sub-par but because hiring practices incentivize sacrificing quality over diversity to make your numbers and get your bonuses. Everyone winks at others and they say we don't sacrifice quality but it is not possible when you have limited window for headcount and your VP is sending yo…

> Guess what they are going to do?

Get bought out then have their company warped beyond recognition once they become big enough. That, or sued into oblivion for patent infringement.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#924

Post by boppo1 »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #674
giantg2 wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The people who study this stuff seriously end up concluding that cultural and domestic factors are the biggest predictor." Wasn't there a Harvard study that concluded the biggest factor was a 2 parent household?

Of course, this has been known for very long. Moynihan was getting in trouble for saying it back in the 60s. It's also the reason why the Civil Rights Act includes women; a particularly angry racist congressman from Virginia added women to the bill (which was widely understood to be aimed at strengthening black fathers to keep families together) to get the whole thing killed (though some publications have argued that…

>a particularly angry racist congressman from Virginia added women to the bill

Where do I read more about this?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#925

Post by boppo1 »

giantg2 wrote: post #523
rrradical wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Discrimination in selecting who to interview is absolutely a form of discrimination. Exactly. That's what the parent comment is saying. But they are thinking about the entire funnel, not just the end of it. By the time a slate of candidates reaches a company's hiring process, there has already been an immense selection bias against minority candidates. Two people growing up in different places (not different cities…

Generally agree that the problem is larger. However, I think this quick fix could result in a net negative. "So a good thing to do is apply some pressure on the funnel to elevate candidates that just barely miss out." Imagine you're one of the non-minorities who worked hard and misses out because of an artificial pressure. How do I explain to my kid that all else equal they will lose to another candidate because of n…

>disillusion them that the world is not a meritocracy, truth and honor count for nothing, hard work may or may not pay off, etc?

They'll pick it up all on their own.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#926

Post by boppo1 »

ironcurtain wrote: post #897
ParetoOptimal wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being white gives me the privilege of not being followed by security at department stores while I see my non-white friends be not so subtly watched or followed.

That’s not the privilege but the consequence of unfortunate experience with shoplifting and groups more likely to perpetrate it. Crime statistics is hateful and racist, no doubt. But it drives bias which serves as first order simplified decision making

>Crime statistics are hateful and racist, no doubt.

How so?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#927

Post by boppo1 »

tptacek wrote: post #295
badpun wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies like Microsoft want the best people. It's not brick laying, there's no "qualified for the job" tick box. The effects in software are non-linear, and one brilliant hire can create more value than 100 mediocre ones. These companies are actively hurt by having to hire second-best diversity hires, even if they're technically qualified for the job (whatever that means).

You're trying to argue axiomatically and I'm relating an empirical fact: Microsoft hires from elite engineering schools, and many of those hires wash out. It's not improbable that there are coding camp people who would perform well at Microsoft. I have seem people with similar backgrounds perform well in other elite engineering environments (cryptography engineering, kernel software security, to name two). "Technical…

>You don't need science to figure out how to do this, although if you want it, it was all worked out and written down in the 1950s.

Where/by who? This would be cool to have onhand.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#928

Post by boppo1 »

colinmhayes wrote: post #431
jobs_throwaway wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're okay with Lebron's children being given advantages in hiring process over a poor white candidate?

I think it’s ok to factor race into the criteria that resumes are judged on because it affects the experiences those students have had and I do think thought diversity is valuable in and of itself. It’s a tricky situation obviously. But at the resume level all we're doing is using heuristics to decide who deserves an interview. Are white applicants with a 3.2 gpa more likely to be successful than black ones with a 3.…

>thought diversity

And you believe this is a function of skin color?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#929

Post by boppo1 »

GenerocUsername wrote: post #624
geraldwhen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very recently I was only allowed to hire a black person. The assumptions here are probably correct. Search linkedin for “diversity recruiter”. It’s a role. Companies post specific reqs that state you must belong to a marginalized group in job posts often enough that it’s a bit stomach churning. I’ve personally had to deal with HR for having too many white men on my teams. For software developers in America.

Our recent town hall included not only a "Diversity Up" slide, but also a "Whiteness Down" slide to which the Black host said "whiteness is down 9% but we can do better". I legit turned off my PC for the day. Still haven't fully recovered from that one.

Someone needs to do a screen recording on something light this and give it some sunlight/reveal the company. I hear about this practice frequently, but have never seen video.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#930

Post by boppo1 »

PKop wrote: post #254

Why would anyone support a system that explicitly dis-empowers them in preference to other identity groups who themselves are perfectly fine to pursue their own self interest? After years of this, are the "privileged" getting the picture yet? You are a target for elimination in popular society. Either you take your own side, or no one will. There is a clear zero-sum aspect to this. The cultural brainwashing that ther…

> You can simply reject this nonsense

No, you can't. Not without becoming ostracised in many cases. My younger self made the poor decision to commit himself to a creative field. I cannot reject the nonsense or I will more-or-less be blackballed socially and professionally.

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