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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#921

Post by mrep »

jupp0r wrote: post #895
cogman10 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

I always wanted to understand how hospitals get away with treating their employees like that. In any other industry, people would not accept it. This is the industry where (arguably) I'd want people to be _most_ relaxed and _least_ overworked because human lives and wellbeing is on the line. Why don't airlines do that to their pilots? Should there be similar regulation in nursing?

Same reason game developers get treated like shit compared to many other developers. People are willing to put up with more shit to do a job they find rewarding.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#922

Post by durgampudi »

triska wrote: post #587
ayngg wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think that this is just one example of many across a ton of disciplines where people like Nurses basically are forced to deal with costs and responsibilities offloaded onto them from above the responsibility chain. Resources are eaten up at the top of the chain to their benefit and costs are offloaded down the chain until it reaches people like Nurses at the end of the line who have to deal with it because…

I think this is due to Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy : https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html "In any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agric…

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#923

Post by poisonborz »

FesterCluck wrote: post #893

I am a systems engineer and software developer, and I have worked on multiple healthcare related systems including one for a major hospital system. I wish I had more access to nurses during the process. I was always told they were too busy. I just wanted to observe, as I do with any client I write systems for, and was denied. I can say that at least 2 other groups were working on the exact same project as I in the ho…

I'd say it's highly questionable that this can be achieved in a reasonable timeframe, if at all. And millions suffer from easily solvable software problems (no communication, no testing and ground research, greed, bad ux), while you chase some current CS buzzword of the year that would win the assignment (AI, blockchain now, chatbots, VR before).

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#924

Post by sanotehu »

bumby wrote: post #652
cogman10 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

> The fix is one that Hospital admins don't want. Pay your nurses more and hire more As someone who worked in hospitals to help redesign their processes, this one piqued my interest. For every project I worked on (and I mean literally every one), the team lead wanted to jump to the solution that they just need the ability to hire more people. In the rare instances where they were able to convince hospital admins to d…

If you're interested in chatting about this sort of stuff, let me know.

I'm a UK doctor working in the field, always looking to optimise processes while keeping quality.

Email is in my profile.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#925

Post by alostpuppy »

mumblemumble wrote: post #864
cced wrote: post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happy to hear that you’re progressing towards a career path that sounds like it will be more fulfilling/better conditions. I just wanted to say that it’s a sad state of affairs when we’re happy to expect uninterrupted breaks. Goes to show just how much we _really_ supported our frontline workers. Best of luck to you!

It rather reminds me of a zinger I read in an article about the plight of people trying to find good jobs after leaving the US military, written at the height of support for the War on Terrorism and consequent fashion for publicly, vocally "saluting our men (sic) in uniform": The American people will do anything for their veterans except take them seriously.

Agreed.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#926

Post by wink »

mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

> Food service workers don't want to take food into a patients room... nurses will do it

No idea where you live but in German hospitals I've never been given the food by anyone but a nurse. There are literally zero people/professions besides doctors, nurses, and cleaning staff near patient rooms.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#927

Post by itsoktocry »

mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

>This one is big for product designers. Often we listen to the people who pay for it and miss out on the people who actually have to use it.

Pedantic, but: I think it's the responsibility of the people that pay for it to talk to the people who use it, and buy the best software.

I have a hard time believing that you can sit a bunch of nurses in a room to talk about the software, and that they'd design and/or elaborate on an awesome UX. Is there an example of that ever working? People have funny ideas about what they want. Homer Simpson's car design is a meme for a reason.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#928

Post by itsoktocry »

cleandreams wrote: post #855
notch656a wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree nurses DESERVE to be paid more (I'm not sure if the economics bear out but they're certainly as WORTHY as many other professions), but wouldn't the fact that these nurses continue to work in nursing despite considering leaving bolster the argument even further that they are receiving adequate compensation? Staying when you want to leave indicates there's enough compensation to 'make it worth it' at l…

America is full of terrible jobs now. Just terrible. There has been a degradation of job quality with outsourcing, amazon, you name it. This may be why nurses don't leave.

>America is full of terrible jobs now.

At what point in time did America have better jobs? A lot of people may reference the glory days of 70s and 80s manufacturing, but those jobs went from bad to good with the power of unionization. There was no free lunch.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#929

Post by mensetmanusman »

codebolt wrote: post #906
triska wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is due to Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy : https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html "In any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agric…

Funny you should mention unions. They seem like the only vehicle (imperfect as it may be) the first group has to keep the second group in check.

In a healthy marketplace, walking to another job works as well.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#930

Post by mensetmanusman »

shaky-carrousel wrote: post #914
ayngg wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think that this is just one example of many across a ton of disciplines where people like Nurses basically are forced to deal with costs and responsibilities offloaded onto them from above the responsibility chain. Resources are eaten up at the top of the chain to their benefit and costs are offloaded down the chain until it reaches people like Nurses at the end of the line who have to deal with it because…

The pillars of society are police, healthcare workers, and teachers. Except in America, where the pillars are, according to salaries, CEOs.

And, the pillars of government are college coaches. Ha
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