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Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

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Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#921

Post by Hermel »

newswasboring wrote: post #661
Hermel wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they are free to do what they want. But if they do something unethical, like removing content for political reasons, I'm also free to criticize them and for example demand a refund if they lured me into a subscription by claiming I would be able to listen to Joe Rogan. Also, you are making wild assumptions about the contract between Joe Rogan and Spotify. Maybe there's a clause in there that they will not o…

> But if they do something unethical, like removing content for political reasons How is this unethical?

It's unethical if you believe that people should be free in expressing their opinions. (Yes, I know that freedom of speech in the US constitution concerns the government and not companies, but I'm talking about freedom of speech as a general value. I find it unethical to suppress someone's ability to freely voice their opinions regardless of whether the government or a private entity does it.)

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#922

Post by istinetz »

leppr wrote: post #612
istinetz wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try to explain why I have an issue with what is happening here. Yes, I agree with almost everything you said. However, the issue is that platforms are consolidated. Depending on your chosen format of content, there are only 2-3 viable platforms to reach people - and for some types of content, only one. And if those very small number of platforms decide to, or are pressured to, delist content or a content creator…

Ok but in this precise case, podcasts have not fallen to mono/duo/trio-poly yet. Joe Rogan made a decision to take the money and give in to a corporation trying to make a podcast monopoly a reality. Who is to complain when the inevitable abuse of power ensues? If it didn't happen now, when podcasts are still open and standardized, it would've happened later once podcasts became proprietary.

Joe Rogan perhaps has no grounds to complain. I am complaining, on my behalf, because I want a world where more than one viewpoint is allowed to win.

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#923

Post by istinetz »

chasing wrote: post #583
istinetz wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try to explain why I have an issue with what is happening here. Yes, I agree with almost everything you said. However, the issue is that platforms are consolidated. Depending on your chosen format of content, there are only 2-3 viable platforms to reach people - and for some types of content, only one. And if those very small number of platforms decide to, or are pressured to, delist content or a content creator…

Then maybe Joe Rogan shouldn’t have sold his podcast for a large pile of money. Because in doing so he let someone else have control over his speech. If this is a battle you want to fight, I might suggest starting with the book banning efforts by Republicans (the actual government) across many states that’s going on right now.

>Then maybe Joe Rogan shouldn’t have sold his podcast for a large pile of money.

Maybe he shouldn't have. And yet I am saying, in this world in which he did, Spotify shouldn't censor him.

>If this is a battle you want to fight, I might suggest starting with the book banning efforts by Republicans

Yes, book banning is also bad, I agree. (???)

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#924

Post by istinetz »

capguy255 wrote: post #693
istinetz wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try to explain why I have an issue with what is happening here. Yes, I agree with almost everything you said. However, the issue is that platforms are consolidated. Depending on your chosen format of content, there are only 2-3 viable platforms to reach people - and for some types of content, only one. And if those very small number of platforms decide to, or are pressured to, delist content or a content creator…

You seem to operate under the presumption that content and culture generally can only be created on major platforms. Nothing stops creators from finding other spaces to post their content. It's what sub-cultures have done pretty much throughout time -- find alternate spaces to explore ideas that might be outside of the mainstream. It's not like Spotify is sending hit squads out to shake down artists that don't join t…

>You seem to operate under the presumption that content and culture generally can only be created on major platforms. Nothing stops creators from finding other spaces to post their content. It's what sub-cultures have done pretty much throughout time -- find alternate spaces to explore ideas that might be outside of the mainstream.

Yes, I agree, this used to be how things worked. Counter-culture movement appears, gains some followers, some leaders, gains momentum, and gradually or overnight breaks into the mainstream.

And this is precisely what happened here - a counter-culture movement tired with the establishment, a lot of followers, some leaders, some momentum - but the moment where change would actually happen is now impossible.

>alternate spaces

What alternate spaces? If Joe Rogan moves his podcast to Apple Music, they are going to ban him. If he had stayed on youtube, they would have removed his channel. If he creates his own app, it's going to be banned in the play store and app store. If he moves to a smaller, existing app, it's going to be protested and banned.

Yes, it's technically possible, there are some options. But they're all terrible. They are not a way to reach the mainstream.

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#926

Post by hnarn »

Dwelve wrote: post #909
hnarn wrote: post #466

I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. JR sold his catalog of intellectual property (podcast episodes) of his own free will and was paid very well for it: about $100M from what I can gather. What Spotify chooses to do with it is completely up to them, even if they bought it…

Ugh... what's worse than the actual censorship are people like you that pretend to not understand the issue, at all. First of all, WHO ARE YOU ARGUING WITH?!? - "proponent of a free market"? Who are you talking to? Critics of these reactions are not these people, so why on earth are you pretending you want to have a discussion when you deliberately choose to argue with people that have no objection to them? You're ta…

First of all, your tone does not belong on HN. Secondly, you claim that I do not "understand the issue, at all", which is ironic to say the least since you then go on to make the following examples as presumably equal to what is going on with JR:

- Discriminating artists across the board based on ethnicity

- Social networks banning end-users for having an opinion

Neither of these are in any way similar to selling your intellectual property to a third party and them deciding whether or not to air it. If you additionally enter an NDA with this party, voluntarily and through compensation, that is in no way anything like discrimination based on ethnicity, or blanket censorship on social media.

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#927

Post by hnarn »

amelius wrote: post #743
hnarn wrote: post #466

I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. JR sold his catalog of intellectual property (podcast episodes) of his own free will and was paid very well for it: about $100M from what I can gather. What Spotify chooses to do with it is completely up to them, even if they bought it…

> I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding (...) As a proponent of Net Neutrality, I recognize that there are instances where corporations should not have the last say in any matter. A free market with unbounded rights for corporations is not a good idea.

> As a proponent of Net Neutrality, I recognize that there are instances where corporations should not have the last say in any matter.

Since when did the term net neutrality change from meaning "a free and open internet on equal terms" to "expropriating platforms that refuse to show things I want to see"?

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#928

Post by hnarn »

kaashif wrote: post #727
hnarn wrote: post #466

I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. JR sold his catalog of intellectual property (podcast episodes) of his own free will and was paid very well for it: about $100M from what I can gather. What Spotify chooses to do with it is completely up to them, even if they bought it…

> I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. You don't understand why someone would want to have all episodes of their favourite podcast available in one place? Just because someone supports the free market doesn't mean they don't have preferences. Support of the free market ju…

> You don't understand why someone would want to have all episodes of their favourite podcast available in one place?

I understand that perfectly well. I don't understand why Spotify would be obligated to serve that need, or indeed serve any content they own that they do not want to serve.

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#929

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

CyberRabbi wrote: post #803
hnarn wrote: post #466

I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. JR sold his catalog of intellectual property (podcast episodes) of his own free will and was paid very well for it: about $100M from what I can gather. What Spotify chooses to do with it is completely up to them, even if they bought it…

I believe in companies having freedom to do what they want but I also believe in civil rights. We need the civil right to prevent large corporations from discriminating against opinions they do not like.

I don't believe governments should force private companies or people to publish or say things they don't want to.

But I do think there is an issue where companies that are monopolies control large parts of public discourse.

I would prefer the right to be able to participate in public discourse without being tied to particular companies. For example, interoperability protocols for messaging and social networking.

Then people have the power to engage with who they like and companies can no longer control the flow of information in the same way. In the earlier days of the internet this is what it was like, before Facebook and Twitter monopolised and controlled information flow.

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#930

Post by toraway1234 »

steelstraw wrote: post #914

It was only a question of time before the all-out war on Rogan began. He's way too big and off-key to permit him to keep going. The concept of free speech in the US is a mirage: you have it right up to the line where it matters or can threaten power centers, then you don't. Every major institution is united to destroy Rogan, including the WH. The Press Secretary -- speaking on behalf of the US Govt -- demanded Spotif…

Thank god Bitcoin and Web3 exist.

Eventually one big content creator is going to move over to Web3 and it will cascade from there.

Every Web3 naysayer/sockpuppet will have to eat their lunch.

Say Rogan moves to Web3, that's it.

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