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OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

whitehouse.gov

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Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#921

Post by xboxnolifes »

iammisc wrote: post #910
caeril wrote: post #906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely not consistent from the bodily autonomy angle, though. And that's a pretty major angle, considering how deeply we're connected with our bodies. Personally, I think anybody who advocates for abrogation of bodily autonomy is an absolute monster, whether an anti-abortionist, a pro-vaccine-mandateist, or an anti-recreational-druggist. Our bodies are all we have. This is the most important freedom we hold.…

There's a difference between asking people to do something and asking them to do nothing though. In general, bodily autonomy is important and this the best abortion defense in my opinion as an anti abortionist.

While there is a difference, bodily autonomy is about the right to make decision around your own body, not the right for your body to run on it's own. So I would argue it is not a good argument as you say.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#922

Post by mint2 »

mchusma wrote: post #674

IMO there is only one argument for not dropping all restrictions and a complete return to normalcy, it's "what about the children?" Here is their BS response: "The FDA is undergoing a process now to evaluate a vaccine for children under the age of 12, and under the President’s plan, the Administration will do whatever it takes to support those efforts, while continuing to respect and defer to the scientific decision-…

Googling Thalidomide may help you understand. The fda is the reason tens of thousands of US children weren’t born with preventable deformities.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#923

Post by tomrod »

spookthesunset wrote: post #832
Cederfjard wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What permanent changes are you envisioning?

You think all this vaccine passport and mask crap is going away anytime soon? This crap is gonna be with us for a long, long time. We will be flying with masks on for years after this, mark my words (and I fully expect people to reply on why this is a good thing). There is a large group of people who refuse to move on from covid. We have a vaccine that keeps you out of the hospital. Once you take it, you have a moral…

Masks in unventilated spaces tend to not be a _bad_ thing, overall. To use my children's phrasing: why it bad to keep your cooties off another person?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#924

Post by iammisc »

hoten wrote: post #16
dmitrygr wrote: post #3

> OSHA will issue an Emergency Temporary > Standard (ETS) to implement this requirement Is this "temporary" in the same way that the PATRIOT act and our invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 were "temporary"? Well, I guess one should never let a good crisis go to waste...

Most of the Patriot act was to expire after 4 years. It was renewed by Congress multiple times. Parts of it were renewed in separate bills after it eventually expired. For the COVID ETS from this June, OSHA has been coordinating with the CDC monthly to determine if it is still necessary. See https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/ets#:~:text=to%20assess%20t... Although, just like Afghanistan, there's no clear end to COVID…

> of the same scale that the military-industrial complex/the executive branch got out of the PATRIOT act/Afghanistan.

Given that covid and the subsequent reaction realized one of the largest wealth transfers from poor to rich in modern history and led to great market returns for those in power, how can you honestly say this?

Look.. like most people on hacker news I am in the top 1% of earners and due to my industry benefitted greatly from covid lockdowns. But just because we benefited, we cannot be blind to the mass robbery that has taken place. We've literally robbed the poor to pay the wealthy.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#925

Post by iammisc »

david_allison wrote: post #165
dmitrygr wrote: post #3

> OSHA will issue an Emergency Temporary > Standard (ETS) to implement this requirement Is this "temporary" in the same way that the PATRIOT act and our invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 were "temporary"? Well, I guess one should never let a good crisis go to waste...

> PATRIOT act Not sure if you're aware, but it expired in 2020

Due to a president that the media declared absolute war against. If Biden or Clinton were in office, they'd have renewed it quietly.

Just because they can't sneak it back in now doesn't mean they don't want to. The new administration has already made bogeyman out of 'domestic terrorism' that it's own fbi cannot find evidence for.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#926

Post by iammisc »

julianlam wrote: post #407
the-dude wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a bit of a moot point for a something that has been active for 2 decades. To call 20 years 'temporary' is a big stretch.

Why? Temporary means "not permanent", it doesn't specify that it must be shorter than any given timeframe.

The united states federal government is temporary too by that metric. Yet everyone gets mad when you talk about eradicating it.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#927

Post by iammisc »

steverb wrote: post #247
ctrlp wrote: post #203

Whether or not you agree if there is legal authority for mandates for this vaccine or this pandemic, where does it end? The trajectory we're on is for all people to be monitored by the State for compliance with the vaccine programs. Israel is already saying 4 shots (and more) will required [0] to participate in that society. Australia, New Zealand, and Canada are quasi-police states [1] and will probably mandate vacc…

I predict that by December of 2021 enough people will have gotten the vaccine or have had COVID that the hospitalization numbers will drop precipitously and then we can all go back to a normal life. The OSHA requirement will hang around, but people won't be freaking out about it because it will be normal. Within two years there will be a childhood COVID vaccine that is safe and effective and it will be required for s…

Funny... That's what many predicted would happen six months ago when the vaccine was available.

And your argument is that by the time the onerous regulation becomes unnecessary everyone will be used to it.

Kind of like how the patriot act was there for so long we all just became numb to the constant surveillance, the nude airport screenings etc.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#928

Post by iammisc »

kbos87 wrote: post #825
ctrlp wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguments for thinking of the burnt-out healthcare professionals are tired and miss the forest for the trees. There are many reasons for healthcare professionals feeling burnt-out that pre-date Covid and were exacerbated by it. Where were your tears for them then? You clearly don't value your liberty. (Maybe you don't even understand what it means, given your mockery.) Liberty refers to your right to govern yourself.…

I value liberty, but I also recognize that there are situations where action (and when needed, mandates) for the good of the collective outweigh individual liberties. Unless you choose to live in the woods disconnected from everything and everyone, you are directly benefitting from the modern and civilized society we live in. If you want to continue participating in and benefitting from it, you'll need to cooperate f…

If you consider abortion to be direct murder, there is no right to abortion. Refusing a covid vaccine is at best making a decision that may kill someone else. We allow these sorts of decisions all the time whether it be not limiting the amount of alcohol an adult can legally serve, smoking, etc.

While the arguments against covid vaccine mandates are similar to pro abortion arguments, the similarities are only superficial. The arguments are slightly different because the circumstances are and this is where the comparison breaks down.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#929

Post by iammisc »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #921
iammisc wrote: post #910

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between asking people to do something and asking them to do nothing though. In general, bodily autonomy is important and this the best abortion defense in my opinion as an anti abortionist.

While there is a difference, bodily autonomy is about the right to make decision around your own body, not the right for your body to run on it's own. So I would argue it is not a good argument as you say.

But your body runs according to the dictates of nature, not solely your will.

For example, my body often breathes even when I don't particularly will it. I also cannot stop the process of digestion with my mind. If I were to ask for the 'right' to stop digestion by asking a doctor to sever my intestines, it would be good for the government to then charge such an irreputable doctor with assault and maybe murder.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#930

Post by dang »

niij wrote: post #813
dang wrote: post #805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same announcement and therefore the same story. The titles picked different details to emphasize. Of course that affected the threads considerably, which is why I didn't merge them.

The private employer story is much more impactful/news-worthy IMO than a federal employee mandate. Also the whitehouse.gov link seems more authoritative than NPRs coverage of it. I understand the need to keep flamewars down, but hiding this thread doesn't feel right to me. Just my 2 cents.

I agree - that's why we turned the flamewar detector off and unhid this thread. I probably should have added that to my comment above; I think I assumed everyone reading this would see that it was back on the front page.
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