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Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

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Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#921
Notice how this article is (ostensibly) written by a woman. And because it's written by a woman, it's now OK to think this, so men are out in droves agreeing.

This article is evidence in its own right of the real problem. Men are afraid to say what they think lest they get cancelled by a woman and her army of men.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#922
If I were in the situation presented in this article, I'd simply speak my mind. I'm fairly sure that I've been a good ally to the women and non-binary folks in my life, and that people who know me would be quick to defend accusations of misogyny or bias. And if that proved to be incorrect, I'd re-evaluate whether I was doing enough to further women and non-binary people in the tech industry.

If, as most in this comment section have, you see yourself as having to keep quiet in the situation presented in this article, ask yourself: who would defend me, and who would throw me under a bus, and why? Think long and hard about why the people around you wouldn't rush to defend your character. Ask yourself if it's really that the feminists are out to cancel you, or if there's a sliver of validity there.

You don't have to be perfect. But there's a large gulf between most people's words and their behavior. That's the real root of the issue here. Merely paying lip service to equality doesn't indemnify you from accusations of bias. If you really truly act as an ally, people will take notice and defend you when the cancel culture comes knocking.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#923

The other day, I was in a Zoom meeting with another man and a woman. The call had too much latency, and the conversation was a tad heated, so we were all interrupting each other to some extent—but I noticed halfway through that I was interrupting the woman more, and she was speaking the least. Just like in all the research. While I certainly didn't go silent for the rest of the meeting, I made a concerted effort to l…

The quietest person in our group meetings is a guy. Nobody will ever let him speak, I guess.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#924

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically the me too movement and the way in which men cannot defend themselves from sexual accusations back fired. Very predictable that this happened, there’s no easy solution.

It's perhaps a bit much to conclude from some anecdotes in this thread that the me too movement backfired (i.e., was a net negative for women in the workplace) as a whole.

I don't think it's surprising that a movement that advocated successfully that the accusations do not require evidence, has created an environment of fear.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#925

I'm really glad to see this here. I don't have a better word readily available than sexism for trying to talk about patterns like this but when I use the word sexism , I think people think I mean "Men are intentionally exclusionary assholes just to be assholes because they simply hate women." and that's never what I'm trying to say. I find my gender is a barrier to getting traction and my experience is that it's due…

Wasn't Theranos debacle because the tech was never going to work due to it being borderline snake oil and whishful thinking hyped by con(wom)man?

I think the point being made is that no one wanted to publicly question the wisdom of the main founder because she was a well connected young woman.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#926
post #889

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fair question - not sure why you are getting down votes. Background - I'm actually on the left a fair bit. So one issue - you are not supposed to really ask minorities / women to explain / teach you / help you deal with these issues because it in fairness burdens them. I'm not looking for that either. In terms of my colleague who I'd mentored in past (before things had gotten more extreme). I think others h…

> "So one issue - you are not supposed to really ask minorities / women to explain / teach you / help you deal with these issues because it in fairness burdens them." Well, yes and no. I can see how it's a burden, but they're also the people with the most hands-on experience. If they won't explain, how can anyone else learn? Because it is a serious problem, and not solving it is not acceptable. Of course men, or whic…

> Well, yes and no. I can see how it's a burden, but they're also the people with the most hands-on experience. If they won't explain, how can anyone else learn?

Take a sociology class at your local community college, read a book, read some blogs/articles by women, people of color, and other minorities.

There are a lot of really good ways to learn from the people who have taken the time to write/speak about the issues they face.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#927

She has a good point, and it's not one that can be easily addressed. I doubt there's any way for a "one size fits all" approach. I have had to manage both men and women, and the gender wasn't always a good indicator of the need to be careful in what I say. But feedback is important. One of the things that I've learned, over the years (not just in tech -long story), is how to give feedback. I have made some mistakes,…

Would you say that your feedback is ever subject to counterpoints, maybe even outright refutation? Or is any pushback just blowing off steam, emoting, and you’re ultimately right in the end?

I notice you “allow for pushback” but do not use the verb “listen” in regard to it.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#928
> I’m not going to suggest a solution to the problem of men clamming up. This is more of a public service announcement than anything else.

I suppose one solution is for women to first gain the trust of the men whose honest opinion they want to hear. Maybe just some comments that explode the unspoken tensions, like “My friend Chad said he thinks my male co-founder should be CEO, and maybe he’s right, but I don’t fully trust his judgement because he can be quite old fashioned and, to be honest, sexist. But that doesn’t necessarily make him wrong in this instance. Could you give me your honest opinion?” It’s then easy for the man to respond.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#929
post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s probably both. The men are assuming based on the female founder’s gender _alone_ that she might accuse him of sexism. Regardless of how rational this fear is, they are stereotyping new female founders they’re meeting for the first time based on what an X% of other female founder’s have done in the past. For the men, it’s probably a risk/reward calculation. Keep your head down and be polite and have ~0% chance of…

1. 'Sexism' should be limited to acts of discrimination that undermine another sex. 2. Advice (which is essentially a gift of knowledge/experience) is not something you are entitled to by virtue of your sex. 3. A man cannot be said to be 'sexist' when he chooses not to give advice that could potentially incriminate him, especially falsely. If a person (whether a man or a woman) chooses to keep silent, and especially…

> There are virtually no consequences to the woman who accuses

So, women are being segregated before having any occasion to accuse men of sexism, and yet you claim that they would face 'no consequences' if they actually did?

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#930

My wife, who is a second wave feminist that believes that women should be given the same opportunities, but are not victims, ran across some of the craziness a few years ago. She was in a tech forum where a woman was complaining about her experience at a company. It amounted to this woman having a perception that she was not being valued as much as a male colleague and was immediately jumping to the conclusion that i…

She's lucky to have been kicked out from such a toxic environment. What I do personally is to just avoid all of these people. I have the impression it's harder to avoid them in California because people are particularly brainwashed over there - which is one of the reasons I avoid California as well.

Nothing in my personal experience counteracts this.
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