Earlier quoted context omitted.
> being ripped off by a vendor [...] things like chargebacks and courts are there to deal with this Third party escrow services, the better business bureau, the police... all of these can (and should in many cases) exist with bitcoin. It doesn't have to be either/or.
When you have a society where those work, “trustless” is no longer a benefit. It’s a catch-22: to be useful, it can’t be useful.
Bitcoin Is Time
921–930 of 1001 posts
Re: Bitcoin Is Time
#922Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only answer that makes any sense is that you can do things that are otherwise illegal or banned by major companies. But the drawbacks are plentiful, even for this sort of use case. And this use case doesn't get easier with a whole bunch of speculation. In fact, it gets harder. And there's no particular reason for such users to leave it in a volatile form. Rather, they would be rational to cash out once the illega…
It should be noted that should you have the right kinds of connections, bitcoin mining itself lets you launder. The miner is given the dirty money as capital, energy subsidies, etc, then creates clean bitcoin, which appears in some anonymous wallet and is then sold. So it's not just that the black market has incentive to use it, there's incentive to make it and even to prefer it over alternatives, because the operati…
The government could just look at your electricity bill and ask how you paid for it and then ask where you got all those mining rigs without a loan. If you can't find an explanation where that money came from you are in a bad spot. It's actually harder than laundering cash since cash can be spent directly without depositing it somewhere where your identity is known.
>The actual conclusion I think is most relevant is the nilhilistic one: "None of these tokens really matter!"
Yes, it's always the same boring old answer. If you could wave a magic wand and make it impossible to pay with euro it would suffer from the same problem. The value in the euro doesn't lie in itself, it lies in the ability to exchange for a service or good. Because I value the good or service I value anything that grants me access to the good or service, the euro grants me access to goods and services, thus I value the euro. Foreign currencies are worthless to me since I cannot use them to buy things, unless I want to import something denominated in a foreign currency, then the currency suddenly gains value for me.
It's laughable that Bitcoin exclusively being a store of value is somehow lauded as a benefit, as if being able to purchase goods with Bitcoin would be a bad thing for Bitcoin. It gets worse now because people insist that it is merely a settlement layer. As the price of Bitcoin goes up its value proposition is somehow getting worse over time. How is this even possible?
Re: Bitcoin Is Time
#923Earlier quoted context omitted.
> most of us are in here for the money and don't give two hoots of the technology Monero's technology enables private and untraceable transactions. It's amazing and I own some just because of that property. Seems to be the only cryptocurrency that still aims to be an actual currency. You're right about the altcoins though.
I love Monero. The transactions are fast and cheap too.
That, combined with the privacy makes it seem really usable. I’d love a way to make cheap, private, digital payments
Re: Bitcoin Is Time
#924Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess the difference is cars are useful. What can I do with a bitcoin except hope to sell it for more USD later?
Exchange it for goods and services. What can you do with USD besides exchanging it for goods and services? (Pay taxes)
Re: Bitcoin Is Time
#925Let me fix that title. Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I only have 11 points. Go ahead. "Bitcoin Is A Waste of Time (and Resources)" What Bitcoin has done is that it taught people they can come together in a sustained flash mob (like an on-the-fly hedge fund operation) and manipulate the price of speculative assets by creating artificial short-term pump-n-dump type demand. Bitcoin has trained our colle…
I'm genuinely amazed at how you're able to take such an in-depth, thoughtfully written article, and reduce it into a mere "bitcoin is a waste of time, people are gamblers".
If you start off with the stupid explanations of Bitcoin HODLers then it requires a lot of deep thinking to debunk all of it and ultimately reach the same conclusion as those snarky people.
Re: Bitcoin Is Time
#926Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone here knew about it when you could mine a few bitcoins per hour on a midrange laptop CPU, but we all thought it was a stupid idea. Here we are, a decade later, still sure it's a stupid idea and increasingly frustrated that the public doesn't understand that.
Or you were wrong back then, and maybe should reconsider? Nah, HN users never reconsider their positions. ;) At least reconsider the proof of stake crypto chains. Not an energy waste.
Re: Bitcoin Is Time
#927Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would you care to share your Econo101 knowledge? I'm not an economist, but nothing has convinced me yet that bitcoin is not the best form of money.
For Bitcoin specifically. You can use a different token backed up by Bitcoin, but the actual implementation has these issues. Transaction rates - Artificially kept low to profit miners. Privacy - Every Bitcoin transactions is on a public blockchain. Transaction fees - Using Bitcoin for even one transaction a day gets expensive. Online only - Unlike cash only works with network access. Conformation Time - Failing to w…
Transaction clearance - Artificially kept centralised to keep states control supply.
Privacy - Every bank transaction requires real names.
Artificial scarcity - If everyone tried to withdraw the money from their banking accounts at or around the same time, all the banknotes in circulation would be unable to cover all the demand.
Re: Bitcoin Is Time
#928Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was a little disappointed since the poster didn't weave in tulips...
They've been saying the same shit about Bitcoin for over a decade. I started fucking around with it in 2010 on a spare Asus laptop I had with a Core2Duo. Glad I did. I thought it was intriguing then and I believe in it now. We've seen the exact same cycles over and over and yet no one seems to "get it". When the block reward halved from 50 to 25, the price skyrocketed, then crashed. When the block reward halved from…
This is the wrong assumption to start from. You should think of the opposite assumption. These people fully understand Bitcoin and other stupid investments.
I thought long and hard about all of this and there is nothing to "get".
>Worldwide central banks are printing money nonstop, literally by the trillions, which is great if you're in a shitload of debt, but not so hot if you're holding a lot of cash assets. Well you can't "print" another 21,000,000 Bitcoins. And BTC is just the first of the cryptocurrencies. It won't be the last, and it probably won't even be the one the world eventually settles on, but make no mistake, this'll be where humanity goes.
Here is the short story. Everything is up. What makes cryptocurrencies special? That they are entirely fictional? So ultimately, since cryptocurrencies aren't used as currencies and instead treated as assets with 0 return like gold the expectation is that it merely catches up with inflation. If it goes up faster than inflation then it is a bubble purely driven by human irrationality. In other words, Bitcoin is a bubble/speculation sentiment index. You can benchmark any other asset against Bitcoin to mostly "cancel" out the speculation part of the market.
>All these currencies have as much value as a bunch of people think they have. Period. I've never seen someone eat Renminbi and stay alive. Never seen someone build a house out of British Pounds.
I can believe that the value of 1€ is high enough to buy a house and then get smacked in the face by house construction companies who build houses for 200k€.
Meanwhile with Bitcoin that is fair game since there is no company that accepts 4 Bitcoin to buy a house no matter what the current value of Bitcoin is. There is no economy that is making the price sticky by making people consider what you can actually do with the currency. Since you can barely do anything with Bitcoin its value isn't based on the existence of an economy that exchanges it, it is merely based on random thoughts of random people who want a self fulfilling prophecy aka a bubble.
Re: Bitcoin Is Time
#929Earlier quoted context omitted.
Earlier I thought it had some obscure use case but this article convinced me that Bitcoin does not deserve the hate it does. It needs more discussion on ways to improve it and solve energy problem! Full disclosure I have 0 bitcoins.
BTC is as old as android, and as likely to change basically and fundamentally as android.
Re: Bitcoin Is Time
#930Earlier quoted context omitted.
For Bitcoin specifically. You can use a different token backed up by Bitcoin, but the actual implementation has these issues. Transaction rates - Artificially kept low to profit miners. Privacy - Every Bitcoin transactions is on a public blockchain. Transaction fees - Using Bitcoin for even one transaction a day gets expensive. Online only - Unlike cash only works with network access. Conformation Time - Failing to w…
The same can be said for central bank money. Transaction clearance - Artificially kept centralised to keep states control supply. Privacy - Every bank transaction requires real names. Artificial scarcity - If everyone tried to withdraw the money from their banking accounts at or around the same time, all the banknotes in circulation would be unable to cover all the demand.
This is needed as otherwise banks could claim to have unlimited funds.
Bank notes provide privacy and are created on demand. Having 1:1 bank notes to M1 money supply would simply be wasteful.