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Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

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Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#921

Post by shakkhar »

alkonaut wrote: post #901
jackjeff wrote: post #884

I don’t understand this attitude which consists of censoring objectionable content like one sweeps dirt under the carpet. If what these people are saying is illegal, just go and arrest them, make them face a judge and go to jail. Otherwise, let them have fun with their silly petty flat earth theories, or whatever imaginary BS they fancy.

Why should Apple or Twitter have to maintain platforms full of content that 99% of their useless object to even though it’s legal (bullying, racism, whatever)? The bar for illegal speech is extremely high, especially in the US. That’s usually a good thing. I don’t want to read that content. More importantly, I don’t want to advertise on the platform with that content.

> I don’t want to read that content. More importantly, I don’t want to advertise on the platform with that content.

Both Twitter and Apple gives you plenty of tools to avoid reading or advertising next to that content. Apple's action has nothing to do with end user preference. This decision was entirely driven by preference of a small group of tech elite.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#922

Post by shakkhar »

gpm wrote: post #169

Fundamentally I believe this should be an anti-trust violation. But then I think the whole "only allow your own software to run on your patented hardware (which you therefore have a government granted monopoly on)" should be an anti-trust violation too. Taking it as a given that Apple has the right to control what software people run on the IPhones that they own. And taking it as a given that we have apparently decid…

Historically, anti-trust authorities have been more concerned about horizontal integration, not vertical integration. On top of that, Apple is not even the largest phone maker in the US, owning around 13% market share. For an anti-trust suite to be successful, the prosecutor needs to prove consumer harm, and that will be hard in this case. (IANAL.)

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#923

Post by varjag »

varjag wrote: post #121
chroem- wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're proposing to remove a very large, very alienated group's last public channel to express themselves peacefully. This risks further escalation. This is compounded with the stark contrast to how the protests were handled this summer.

People with authoritarian mindset have a great respect for force.

Case in point: the Republican support for putsch has dropped from 47% to 18% mere hours after the first FBI raids.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#924

Post by willyt »

nicbou wrote: post #153
bjtitus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. Well these last two seem pretty par for the course for illegitimate claims been promoted as legitimate. At a certain point the line of absurdity has been crossed at it is not the duty of society to constantly debunk illegitimate claims. > The other side keeps deplatforming them In this particular case, Parler has been host to a num…

Yes, that is what reddit, twitter and Hacker News reinforce constantly. It's either because it's true, or because the other side has been repeatedly discouraged from adding their two cents in those communities. I've been seeing the world through this lens for so long that I can't tell. I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. It seems much more likely that I…

The problem is that you have a two party system, so all viewpoints have to fit into one of those parties. Democracy is a spectrum running from North Korea to Scandinavia.

I.e from Dictatorship > One party > Two party > De-facto Two party (first past the post Parliamentary) > Coalition government with proportional representation.

The huge advantage of coalition government being that unless you have extreme views, your politicians are always at the table so your views are never completely ignored for 4 or 8 years. So yes I’m arguing that the US is actually quite undemocratic compared to other first world countries, and the U.K. where I am is not much better.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#925

Post by alkonaut »

shakkhar wrote: post #921
alkonaut wrote: post #901

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should Apple or Twitter have to maintain platforms full of content that 99% of their useless object to even though it’s legal (bullying, racism, whatever)? The bar for illegal speech is extremely high, especially in the US. That’s usually a good thing. I don’t want to read that content. More importantly, I don’t want to advertise on the platform with that content.

> I don’t want to read that content. More importantly, I don’t want to advertise on the platform with that content. Both Twitter and Apple gives you plenty of tools to avoid reading or advertising next to that content. Apple's action has nothing to do with end user preference. This decision was entirely driven by preference of a small group of tech elite.

That’s an extraordinary claim that would be very hard to back up with evidence.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#926

Post by twirlock »

Quinner wrote: post #525
nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

Five years ago civil society was in general agreement that racism was bad and that we should respect the democratic process instead of seeking to violently overthrow it. Of course there were people who disagreed but they were at the margins and their voices were isolated to a few forums most people never heard of. A demagogue came along and used mass media platforms to destabilize the norms of civil society and give…

You might as well just say "they bad me good."

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#927

Post by jmcqk6 »

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

If they were willing to discuss and listen, this wouldn't be a problem.

If people are just talking at you, it's not your fault there isn't a discussion happening. I have tried for years to talk with the type of person that is getting deplatformed here. I'm related to many of them. They don't want to have the discussion. They just want to dominate everyone else.

They are responsible for the consequences of their actions.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#928

Post by minikites »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #261
nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

We already know from history what happens when large groups are disenfranchised from the public sphere. Violence. Lots of it. And once it starts, it's not easily stopped. Some welcome this because they think it can be managed for their own purposes. But once civil order breaks down, things simply accelerate with no possibility of talk being able to stop it anymore. It takes on a life of its own. Those who dream of th…

>But once civil order breaks down, things simply accelerate with no possibility of talk being able to stop it anymore.

The left is mad that they're getting shot in the head by cops for peacefully protesting. The right is mad that they can't tweet insurrectionist rhetoric. I don't buy the "civil disorder" argument, the USA hasn't been "civilized" for a long time.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#929

Post by physicsyogi »

botwriter wrote: post #279
nicbou wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is what reddit, twitter and Hacker News reinforce constantly. It's either because it's true, or because the other side has been repeatedly discouraged from adding their two cents in those communities. I've been seeing the world through this lens for so long that I can't tell. I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. It seems much more likely that I…

Why does the left have to censor the right? Surely they should be able to beat the right with logical and reasoned arguments? Censorship has always struck me as a tool that a side which isn't confident in its arguments uses.

Research into belief perseverance shows that even when people are shown overwhelming evidence contradicting one of their beliefs that they dig in their heels and stick to the belief anyway. [1]

There's also Frank Lunz's observation that many people form opinions based solely on the emotive content of the words (Russell conjugation [2]) they're presented with, regardless of the facts. [3]

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief_perseverance [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotive_conjugation [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz#Use_of_language

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#930

Post by minikites »

ncann wrote: post #817
aksss wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've spent a couple years now (right?) tacitly approving rioting as an acceptable response to feeling disenfranchised. Now we're surprised when the same medicine gets used by others. For either side, I'm not sure it's proper minimize their complaints. If the BLM crowd says they have a serious problem with police violence, the best reaction is, "what can we do to restore confidence?" Similarly, when 40% of the countr…

> The lesson here is to condemn all rioting, set expectations that are equally applied to all segments of society. I can't agree with this more. Through this event and what happened last year I can see how incredibly bias the media is when portraying protests and riots. During BLM, there's barely any coverage on the looting and destruction caused by "protesters" on mainstream media. There was a very clear attempt to…

Weird how it's only looting when black people do it, whereas when white people occupy and steal from a government building they're just voicing their displeasure with government.

If you don't see the incredibly stark contrast in how the authorities handled and prepared for the Capitol insurrection (yes, the insurrection plans were public and known weeks in advance) compared to BLM protests, I don't understand how there can even be a debate about this because we are clearly operating in two different realities.

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