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The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

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Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#921
post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some thoughts about that: 1. In the US, zoning laws discourage building things like the "mother in-law suite". These zoning laws were originally created as a way to get around federal laws prohibiting discrimination of race and sex by making it more difficult for people who can't afford housing to live within a certain neighborhood. Even if US residents wanted to add housing for some semblance of independence, zoning…

A granny flat or mother-in-law suite would be cheating. It's a separate apartment. Your parents are your neighbors not your room-mates anymore. Education in other countries is far more strict and regimented than the US. Especially Asia. I've always thought the main driver for leaving home is instinctive, basically teenage rebelliousness. If there's cultural "programming" going on, it is just as likely to be in the so…

> A granny flat or mother-in-law suite would be cheating. It's a separate apartment. Your parents are your neighbors not your room-mates anymore.

That's correct. It gives some semblance of independence. My point with that one is that even if US residents were inclined to "cheat", current zoning laws in most municipalities makes building additions, or expanding to duplexes and triplexes illegal. Other things like, requiring onsite parking, setbacks, not allowing mixed-use zones impacts the ability to have affordable housing.

These laws are changing. Portland recently expanded the zoning laws to allow many of those. The activists who got that through campaigned under the banner of "walkability", but it was a lot more than that. Other cities may follow as they see how well Portland does.

> Education in other countries is far more strict and regimented than the US. Especially Asia.

I was born in Taiwan and was raised mostly in the US, so I have had a taste of what that strictness is. A lot of the structure that the US compulsory school system is based on, took their playbook from the way the Indian caste system educate their children. That educational system was there before the industrialization took that method for its own use.

To be clear, when we're talking about "education", we're talking about "compulsory education" that is part of the predominant paradigm of the modern world. Prior to the compulsory educational laws, the US had a literacy rate of 99%, in a nation of farmers. Kids were taught at home or in one-room schools. It was understood that the main purpose of education was not to create factory workers, but to have critically-thinking and informed citizens in a republic. The contrast between that and our current generation of algorithm-driven conspiracy theories is stark.

What I just talked about and more is in John Taylor Gatto's book.

There are alternative models showing up here. Alaska does not put all the kids all in the same grade. There are too many kids in the bush. Instead, kids learn each subject at the competency level independently. A kid might be at 8th grade reading level for example, and still working through 3rd grade math. Carol Sandford's work on education is much more radical -- no cirriculum, no teachers, no grading. Instead, capabilities like critical thinking are developed, and the kids are taught a framework in which they evaluate their contributions and actions. The kids decide what they want to contribute, and then they figure out how they are going to do it.

> I've always thought the main driver for leaving home is instinctive, basically teenage rebelliousness. If there's cultural "programming" going on, it is just as likely to be in the societies that overcome these drives and keep children subservient to their parents.

Adolescence is a distinct phase that is studied by psychologists during the modern era. It didn't really exist pre-industrialization, pre-compulsory schooling. It used to be, around the pre-teen age, kids were apprenticed and treated as inexperienced young adults. Some cultures had rites of passages that definitively marks when childhood ends, adulthood begins, in a way that the whole community acknowledged. I suppose in the modern era, the ability to be financially independent from the parents a sign of adulthood.

Compounding that is better nutrition, and perhaps, the way our food is grown (hormones), and artificial lighting all contributes towards an earlier age of pubescence. Modern kids' physical maturity are happening at a younger age at the same that the length of time before they are treated as a full adult gets extended.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#922

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that worse? You're claiming it's the same?

I'm saying this couldn't work without explicitly including restrictions on the freedom of the press, since "the press" is the very vehicle by which money gets turned into political influence. Unless this amendment includes something akin to the fairness doctrine I can't see how it could possibly have the effect you are looking for.

corporations != people

The press does it's fair share, but you're wrong. Don't be afraid of change. If something isn't working; we should fix it.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#923
post #870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an "either or". There are mid-range cities, with jobs and affordable housing. As many jobs as there are in SF, LA, NYC, etc, they don't comprise 100% of all jobs.

These mid range cities are not as agreeable as you think. I live in one. Housing is very expensive W.R.T income now. The reason many of these places have cheap housing is largely because of abandoned neighborhoods, vacant lots, condemned housing, ancient housing which requires A TON of work...the neighborhoods people want to live in are pretty expensive still. Not to mention the old school mentality and opportunity c…

So it sounds like tradeoffs. Go to a big city, get a high salary, can't afford a house. Go to a medium size city, get a lower salary, can afford a house.

I'm not surprised there is a utopian city where salaries are high and housing is cheap.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#924
post #876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that is not my understanding. how are you defining "effective income"

If everything gets 4 times as expensive but your pay stays the same, you can only afford 1/4 of what you used to.

Correct, but I do not believe that is the case.

I think both pay has gone up over time and tracked with inflation. I also think the things people are buying better and more expensive products than they did before.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#925
post #920

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This matches my experience that children of immigrants from intergenerational living cultures choose to live separate from parents if they can afford it. No one makes compromises unless they have to, and unless you have a big soundproof house, two or more couples living together are going to bump into each other. I see older parents moving back in with kids due to declining health, but otherwise the consensus seems t…

Having your family under one roof isn't a compromise, unless you don't like your family. Sure, there are downsides at times to having everyone together, but the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Even if you like your family, I would be surprised if you didn't make compromises regarding noise levels during different times of day, cooking choices, having people over, etc. Not to mention cultural differences.

The above might not apply if you have a large enough space with sufficient sound proofing and multiple kitchens, but that's not the reality for most people. There are positives, but my observations suggest that the biggest factor in determining if you live in an intergenerational household is whether or not children and the parents can both afford to live in different houses.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#926
post #923

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These mid range cities are not as agreeable as you think. I live in one. Housing is very expensive W.R.T income now. The reason many of these places have cheap housing is largely because of abandoned neighborhoods, vacant lots, condemned housing, ancient housing which requires A TON of work...the neighborhoods people want to live in are pretty expensive still. Not to mention the old school mentality and opportunity c…

So it sounds like tradeoffs. Go to a big city, get a high salary, can't afford a house. Go to a medium size city, get a lower salary, can afford a house. I'm not surprised there is a utopian city where salaries are high and housing is cheap.

Yup, and there's a good breakdown here of the salary one must earn to be able to afford the median home: https://www.hsh.com/finance/mortgage/salary-home-buying-25-c...

There are a lot of options for everyone, regardless of which trade-off one chooses to make.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#927
post #908

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A sizable percentage of people don't want to live in condos. And they aren't necessarily small, either. >This do increase the price of real estate, but not that much relative to the bigger picture. The price of a "glitzy" fridge vs. a non glitzy fridge is going to be what, $500? $1,000? That's an extreme understatement. A glitzy refrigerator might only had $500 but marble counters might add $20,000 or more. Same with…

> A sizable percentage of people don't want to live in condos. And they aren't necessarily small, either. Most condos are small. If a sizeable proportion of people don't want to live in condos, that would make them cheaper. The fact that they're appreciating similarly that is further evidence that the premium for size is not the driver of what's happening. > That's an extreme understatement. A glitzy refrigerator mig…

> It's nonsensical to think that the price of housing has risen primarily because of quality increases because many, many houses have seen large appreciation with no changes.

So it should be absolutely no problem for you to take me up on my offer. Locate a home, built in the 50s or 60s, without any additions adding square feet. Cheap counters, cheap flooring, and cheap fixtures. If what you say is true this should be relatively simple.

How much is it, and how much more or less expensive is it than newer construction in the area. If homes are just rapidly appreciating while they sit there unimproved, this should be a trivial exercise.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#928
post #899

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting because this looks at inflation from another angle. Some of the central bank money does eventually circulate in the economy but since the money goes to assets first, consumer inflation will always lag behind asset inflation and therefore we have a redistribution effect from the poor to the rich. Unless central banks adopt policies that distribute money evenly among the population they are going to ke…

The central bank cannot distribute money evenly among the population. Congress however can and they basically did albeit selectively based on need with the CARES act which gave citizens direct cash handouts, massive increases to unemployment, and indirectly by funding payroll for small businesses and airlines. However, they are supposed to maintain a budget and the CARES act alone cost over 2 trillion dollars so they…

The problem is that the fed did not buy those US treasuries.

The fed bought a bunch of crap bonds from the market at above market value (As prior to their involvement, those bonds were tanking), and the people who sold them those bonds then went on to buy treasures and securities.

It socialized the risk, and privatized the profits.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#929

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but at my parents' home it's such a classical traditional division of labor that the housewife does all the cleaning, it's her domain, her full-time job. She'd be self-conscious of not doing her part (and annoying) if someone else was doing it. It wasn't even considered normal for me to cook anything in the kitchen while I still lived at home. It was like being in someone else's workshop and using all their t…

Moroccan household?

Italian, Scorsese's short film ITALIANAMERICAN [0] is uncannily representative, @~7:20 the husband outright declares cooking isn't his line of work.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxYl93p0ksc

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#930
post #923

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These mid range cities are not as agreeable as you think. I live in one. Housing is very expensive W.R.T income now. The reason many of these places have cheap housing is largely because of abandoned neighborhoods, vacant lots, condemned housing, ancient housing which requires A TON of work...the neighborhoods people want to live in are pretty expensive still. Not to mention the old school mentality and opportunity c…

So it sounds like tradeoffs. Go to a big city, get a high salary, can't afford a house. Go to a medium size city, get a lower salary, can afford a house. I'm not surprised there is a utopian city where salaries are high and housing is cheap.

The tradeoffs aren't worth it.

That's why people left Pittsburgh en masse and other cities have larger populations. Ultimately if it didn't make sense to go to big cities people would stop because of the costs - clearly the market says it's worth it.

Not everyone wants to live in the midwest with terrible food options just so they can afford a house built in 1940 with knob and tube wiring. These costs are never considered because people just want to say things like "lol move" without considering why people just don't move.

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