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Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

nytimes.com

921–930 of 1001 posts

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#921
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys are talking about Uber dying, but I cannot fathom how this is possible from just the user's perspective. Uber seems to be everywhere, people take Ubers or driver for Ubers every day. How could a company this big fail? Stop growing maybe, but going bankrupt and shutting down?

If the unit economics don't stack up, then the bigger it is, the faster it'll go out of business without external investment. Pervasiveness doesn't mean it's profitable, it means it's popular. If I had a network of people giving away $1 for $0.90 it'd be super popular. As it is, Uber doesn't need to do too much to hit break even. Some central costs cut, and a slight rise on price.

I agree, but investors don't want to break even. The fundamental tension here is high operating margins -- 60% not being uncommon operating margins for a software company -- are incompatible with a highly competitive industry. But it's those fat margins that justify massive R&D investment. Although software companies have enormous operating margins, they generally are not more profitable, because of huge fixed investment.

That creates a bit of a puzzle for industries with very thin operating margins that want to make significant investments in R&D. Generally they don't do it. That is why innovation at the Grocery store or in Long Haul trucking is so slow. From an engineering point of view, they are ripe for disruption, until you bring in an accountant to tell you that the disruption doesn't pencil out. Uber, like everything else, said to hell with it we're going ahead anyway. So how can they make things pencil out?

One option is to raise unit revenue in the future, which in an industry that's currently competitive means driving out the competition. IMO Uber was originally targeting this. But it turns out -- and really anyone could have told you -- that what Uber is doing isn't technically difficult. The heavy lifting is smartphones, GPS and Maps, whose availability made Uber/Lyft possible. Uber doesn't own any of the key technologies that make Uber possible, nor do they have a track record of being able to tackle really hard technology problems. They've had huge problems scaling and when Uber started using its own maps, it was a disaster. Bad maps is the #1 problem with Uber. Lots of new competitors have sprung up already that give basically an equivalent user experience, so Uber is not going to get real pricing power.

The next option would be "Lower unit costs in the future", But so far, that means spinning tales about self-driving cars, which is way beyond their technical ability as well as decades out even for those that have the chops to pull it off. IMO this only works because the latter round investors are naive about technology and the current investment climate is conducive to reaching for yield.

So while it's perfectly possible for Uber to continue existing as a concern, I don't think it's possible to satisfy their investors, and this means, unfortunately, that Uber may not make it. Many companies engage in a lot of self-destructive acts to meet unrealistic profit or growth goals set by investors, but in this case, Uber has only themselves to blame for setting these expectations. This is a shame, because I prefer Uber to Lyft and think they've created enormous value for both riders and drivers.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#922

Pushing a founder out is often a bad idea. This might very well be the beginning of Uber's demise. This won't be good for the company. All CEOs make mistakes even great ones like Gates with antitrust or Zuck calling users dumb-fucks. They weren't kicked out, they instead were allowed to come into their own. There's a distinct fire that a founder has for the company they founded. You can't hire that. Without this fire…

> This might very well be the beginning of Uber's demise.

Yeah they may start losing money every quarter.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#923
One thing that strikes me as strange is how we have had a persistent release of negative information about Uber through many different kinds of media outlets for the past few months.

This is not meant to cast doubt on the problems at Uber highlighted in these reports.

However, It seems like the drip of negative information was intentional, perhaps with the goal of having him resign.

Uber was guilty in the public eye almost immediately.

Even today the media narrative is that this is good for Silicon Valley culture as a whole. Implicit in this line of thinking is that most SV companies have the same culture problems. I find that to be troubling and largely incorrect.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#924
post #764

Much of the resistance to Uber (such as laws that were broken, protests) were from entrenched interests. At least where I live in NYC, Uber was dramatically improving customer value while providing innovations that reduced greenhouse gas. It provided completion for the entrenched Yellow Cab monopoly with its very high rates. Sometimes Uber would have higher rates but then you could take a Yellow Cab instead. The Yell…

So why Lyft get none of the protests? I think you are mixing unrelated subjects. Uber final product is good for society. And other companies can provide the same product (in my city, São Paulo, there are other 3 good companies in the same space). Uber practices as a company are toxic for its employees and some of the toxicity leak to society. If such calculation was possible, I believe it would show a net positive im…

Once upon a time I heard a concept in motorcycling of the sacrificial jerk. This was when you deliberately rode behind someone who rode like an asshole. In turn they provided the upper boundary of your willingness to break the speed limit and for you to ride like an asshole, in hopes that they'd attract the ire of the police instead of you.

Leaving any motorcycle safety conversations aside, I think Uber has been the sacrificial jerk of the rideshare industry. Lyft probably would have attracted some of the same issues if there hadn't been someone more brash and more willing to flout their law breaking ahead of them.

Now Uber's explosive expansion and the resultant "they're gonna do it anyway, may as well accommodate 'em" reaction of the regulators has more or less normalized the good parts of the rideshare industry. Lyft and perhaps other competitors-to-be can benefit without taking nearly as much flak. Hopefully you're right in terms of the ability to provide a much bigger net positive in that situation.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#925
post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is factually incorrect. You're drawing a direct parallel between medallion taxis and Uber/Lyft rides, when they are not in fact the same at all. The outer boroughs, and every neighborhood in the city, has had car service options for decades, where you call a phone number (or often walk to a local storefront stand) to get a ride. This is the exact market segment that Uber has entered. Literally. There wasn't and…

I'll attest to the original comment by davidf18. Uber/Lyft have radically changed NYC for the better. Ride sharing services are significantly cheaper on the order of multiples, easier to use (eg. no more hailing, paying), and a hell of a lot more pleasant to ride in than taxis. Taxis were notoriously bad. They'd intentionally take slower routes to run up the meter, refuse passengers trying to go to locations the driv…

Counterexample: Taxi companies in Stockholm developed hailing apps before Uber. Most of them already had location services for mobile phones so you could call their voice system, and there was an option to get a cab to your current location if you were calling from mobile. I presume there was a cooperation between the mobile carriers and the taxi systems so they could pull that info.

Their first hailing apps was simply an extension of this, but it used the phone's gps, and you would press a button in the app for "a taxi, now, here", but the underlying systems were at least already there.

After Uber entered the market, they made their apps better, and you can now attach a payment method to pay through the app, and there's gps tracking of the car you're waiting on, same as Uber and similar.

But Stockholm never had a medallion system or other caps, and there's no monopoly, but there is some sort of oligopoly where some companies get better access to major taxi destinations such as airports and train stations. As usual, healthy competition is the key. :)

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#926

One thing that strikes me as strange is how we have had a persistent release of negative information about Uber through many different kinds of media outlets for the past few months. This is not meant to cast doubt on the problems at Uber highlighted in these reports. However, It seems like the drip of negative information was intentional, perhaps with the goal of having him resign. Uber was guilty in the public eye…

This is a pretty strange line of logic. Uber has consistently been in the media for YEARS about corrupt things they've done. I think the public decided they were bad because of those many things, not by some stroke of luck...

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#927
post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why Lyft get none of the protests? I think you are mixing unrelated subjects. Uber final product is good for society. And other companies can provide the same product (in my city, São Paulo, there are other 3 good companies in the same space). Uber practices as a company are toxic for its employees and some of the toxicity leak to society. If such calculation was possible, I believe it would show a net positive im…

Once upon a time I heard a concept in motorcycling of the sacrificial jerk. This was when you deliberately rode behind someone who rode like an asshole. In turn they provided the upper boundary of your willingness to break the speed limit and for you to ride like an asshole, in hopes that they'd attract the ire of the police instead of you. Leaving any motorcycle safety conversations aside, I think Uber has been the…

I call this the "pace car" when driving. You can do anything the pace car does because he'll get caught first - he sets the pace.

Uber is the pace car and the police pulled him over, Lyft saw this and applied their brakes.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#928

Much of the resistance to Uber (such as laws that were broken, protests) were from entrenched interests. At least where I live in NYC, Uber was dramatically improving customer value while providing innovations that reduced greenhouse gas. It provided completion for the entrenched Yellow Cab monopoly with its very high rates. Sometimes Uber would have higher rates but then you could take a Yellow Cab instead. The Yell…

Much of the restaistance is nothing to do with taxi medallions:

https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-on...

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/20/business/media/uber-emil-...

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#929

One thing that strikes me as strange is how we have had a persistent release of negative information about Uber through many different kinds of media outlets for the past few months. This is not meant to cast doubt on the problems at Uber highlighted in these reports. However, It seems like the drip of negative information was intentional, perhaps with the goal of having him resign. Uber was guilty in the public eye…

This is a pretty strange line of logic. Uber has consistently been in the media for YEARS about corrupt things they've done. I think the public decided they were bad because of those many things, not by some stroke of luck...

While it is true they have been in the media for years for various reasons... Over the past few months it seemed to be accelerating.

Perhaps the lesson here is that if you set out to disrupt powerful interests across the world, you better have your own house in order, otherwise they will disrupt you.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#930
post #927

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once upon a time I heard a concept in motorcycling of the sacrificial jerk. This was when you deliberately rode behind someone who rode like an asshole. In turn they provided the upper boundary of your willingness to break the speed limit and for you to ride like an asshole, in hopes that they'd attract the ire of the police instead of you. Leaving any motorcycle safety conversations aside, I think Uber has been the…

I call this the "pace car" when driving. You can do anything the pace car does because he'll get caught first - he sets the pace. Uber is the pace car and the police pulled him over, Lyft saw this and applied their brakes.

I've always heard it called a 'rabbit' [1], but I like 'sacrifficial jerk' and will probably use that from now on.

1. http://radartest.com/Top-5-Tips.asp

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