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UK votes to leave EU

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK votes to leave EU

#921

Post by 7Z7 »

grondilu wrote: post #612
_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

> The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. Borders exist so the concept of freedom of movement is not absolute. Now, maybe that's a bad thing and we should abolish all borders all around the World. I feel that would be unreasonable though, but it's probably debatable.

How did you get to "absolute" and "all borders around the World", from "an important civil right" that we granted outselves within the regions we control?

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#922

Post by mkaziz »

igravious wrote: post #753
ivoras wrote: post #392

One more thing: the UK was the official reason English is one of the languages of the EU (same as, on paper at least, with all the other languages). It will require some more fiddling to keep it so.

Irish Republic. 5 million people. Once UK finally leaves the EU Ireland will be the largest state in the EU where the majority language is English. To help you find it :) Ireland is located in 26 out of 32 of the counties in that island to the west of Great Britain. ;-)

Some folks say it should be 32 out of 32.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#923

Post by dragonwriter »

jeffwass wrote: post #161
dangjc wrote: post #95

It's amazing that such deep constitutional change will be achieved with such a slim majority. 48% of British people will be ejected out of the EU essentially against their will. The UK has always embraced first past the post voting, but it really shows here how it creates very discontinuous inflection points.

I've heard yesterday that the referendum itself is non-binding, and that Parliament is still in charge of the final decision. Further Parliamentary lawmakers are supposedly mostly pro-Remain, so given the slim margin of victory it's not clear what will ultimately happen.

> I've heard yesterday that the referendum itself is non-binding, and that Parliament is still in charge of the final decision.

As I understand it, that's not strictly correct: triggering article 50 is an exercise of royal prerogative[0][1], so it is a matter for the PM and cabinet (or, rather, the monarch alone, who is bound by strong convention to adhere to the advice of the PM and cabinet in its exercise.) [2]

Once article 50 is triggered, the UK is out of the EU in 2 years under default terms unless either that term is extended by the EU (member states acting unanimously) and/or a UK/EU agreement on alternative terms is ratified before the period expires (which, again, requires the EU to be unanimous.)

The British parliament can block an exit agreement after Article 50 is triggered, but that just leaves the UK with the default exit terms.

There's also elements of its relations with European institutions that are written into Britain's domestic law; Parliament could drag its feet on repealing those, but that wouldn't keep the UK in the EU it would make the UK a non-EU nation that choose to remain subject to some EU rules and institutions.

[0] http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/britain-has-... [1] http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=67 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_prerogative_in_the_Unite...

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#924

Post by Chris2048 »

Annatar wrote: post #816

The English, even to this present day, are not known for being benevolent masters... but they are known for being violent ones, who will stop at nothing to satisfy their short term interests. How many nations have the English downtrodden? How many do they still try to intimidate, bluff, or put pressure on, even as ordinary citizens in management positions? Of small comfort then, is the fact that the English have abol…

Voted down for attempting to mimic/mock British slang in an insulting manner.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#925

Post by alva »

Chromozon wrote: post #909

This is what happens when major decisions can be determined a simple majority vote. What does 52 to 48 mean? It means UNDECIDED. Half the country feels one way, and the other half feels the other way. For a change this large, it should require at least a 60/40 vote. If the population is undecided, why on earth would you suddenly stop what you have been doing for the last 50 years (which has worked out fine) and go do…

"What does 52 to 48 mean? It means UNDECIDED"

No. It means 2% more people wanted Brexit.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#926

Post by keithpeter »

pavlov wrote: post #378

I'm a Finn, and always thought that UK could be an interesting place to live some day. This decision completely destroys that possibility because moving to a non-EU country is not a realistic option -- I wouldn't go out of my way to look for bureaucratic headaches. Since the UK doesn't want people like me, I guess it will increasingly become another place I never think about. This was a major win for isolationism, bu…

I'm old, and I can remember before 1975 quite clearly.

I grew up in Liverpool and we had all sorts of people living there - owning or renting houses - and getting on with their lives. There were enough Norwegians to have their own church. A fair number of Germans, and a Frenchman who ran a well-known cafe (probably lots more I didn't see). We even had Americans, mostly military people but not all. As well as lots of people from the Commonwealth countries, I can remember my first taste of a curry (a chick pea and potato masala on naan bread) and of wonton soup, not to mention cassava chips.

UK mainland is quite large - it does not feel like an island if you know what I mean. There are a lot of pretty diverse communities. Because of our history (ok, maritime power and imperialism) we have been open to most of the world. Most of the male members of my family tree (going back 8 or 9 generations) arrived on boats, most from other parts of the UK but some from other places (the women stayed put - often living in the same house for their whole life). I live in the midlands, quite near a small nondescript field where people think the first (beam) engine was erected - it pumped water out of a coal mine and that is where the industrial revolution began.

If you have skills, there will be a points system and you will get a visa. Just like the US, if you put down roots and want to stay in the UK as your main home, there will be a way of applying for citizenship. Many people here work remotely in a variety of countries where there is no formal 'free movement' agreement and they seem to get on.

PS: Our mountains are a bit crap though. Scotland has some reasonable ones. They call them 'munros'

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#927

Post by lemiffe »

This discussion on Hackernews should have happened before the exit and not after, 2100+ comments so far, it goes to say that we all have strong opinions on the matter that might have swayed some of us that can vote in the UK.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#928

Post by dragonwriter »

alva wrote: post #925
Chromozon wrote: post #909

This is what happens when major decisions can be determined a simple majority vote. What does 52 to 48 mean? It means UNDECIDED. Half the country feels one way, and the other half feels the other way. For a change this large, it should require at least a 60/40 vote. If the population is undecided, why on earth would you suddenly stop what you have been doing for the last 50 years (which has worked out fine) and go do…

"What does 52 to 48 mean? It means UNDECIDED" No. It means 2% more people wanted Brexit.

> "What does 52 to 48 mean? It means UNDECIDED"

> No. It means 2% more people wanted Brexit.

In traditional arithmetic, 52 is 4 more than 48, not 2 more.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#929

Post by bobthechef »

So now that the transatlanticists (Hilary is one) have lost their EU insider, I suspect Poland will take its place. Given that Poland is a geopolitically strategic country, given Russian aggression, and given that German and Russia are "talking again", it seems that Brexit will prove fruitful for Poland in the long run...if both countries play their cards right. Impeding Polish immigration to Britain can also force a turn of events in Poland that prevent the gov't from relying on immigration to deal with unemployment through long overdue reforms.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#930

Post by aioprisan »

PopsiclePete wrote: post #920
_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

For some, like Germany, the EU is great . Their export-oriented economy coupled with control of the ECB and the Euro currency means they get to export their goods to the entire continent without tariffs. Someone like Greece/Portugal, who are not manufacturing/export economies, in the meantime get to enjoy endless debt and with no control to print and devalue their own currency, are essentially fucked. Forever. Is the…

Sorry, but if your country's economy is not producing anything worth exporting and, you know, selling to others in exchange for money and jobs being created by that growth, then there's nothing the EU or any other union can do for you - or is, for that matter, taking anything away.
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