Live data from Hacker News

GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

businessinsider.com

921–930 of 1001 posts

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#921
post #379

I would expect more from a tech company that is supposed to be by programmers for programmers. Programmers are abstract thinkers, and it's disgusting to see them lower themselves and adopt the semantics and memes of obvious cultural constructs like race. What does it even mean to be "white"? Who exactly are they talking about and what is it about this group of people that is so bad? There's no need to bring in this g…

> American culture is such a bummer when it comes to how it shoves people into categories. We need to start learning how to simply NOT THINK about race, and NOT MENTION IT.

This is something that had wondered about the USA race culture... the fact that you mention "there are x Latin-like population" or "Y black population" or "Z white population", the mere separation means that people are thinking in terms of races...

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#922

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your Berkeley friends may simply be more educated. In any case, before you pass judgment, try expressing a differing opinion. Most of the feminists that are my friends aren't 'militant'. I can disagree with them and point out where their little bits of dogma differ with reality. We can usually have a discussion and learn from each other. But trying to do that with any self-proclaimed feminist who doesn't already know…

> *Did you know murder by males is the number one cause of death among females? I've been hearing that myth a lot recently too. I checked the CDC to see the real numbers. Cancer (disturbingly all ages groups), and (traffic) accidents, and heart disease make up the lion's share. Even suicide is larger than murders. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

I was wondering if they lumped in accidental "murders", like traffic accidents, they might get there.

But even that isn't enough.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#923
post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've banned this account for crossing into personal attack. There are a lot of new accounts in this thread commenting in a way that pushes the limits of HN's rules, but given that it's a highly charged topic, we've cut most of them some slack. But stuff like the end of this one is not allowed.

How is that comment a personal attack? For saying that the Github CEO would hypothetically argue for more money? Other than the Github CEO, who has been singled out for personal attack? There are really no personal details or singling out of individuals here. This comment is low-signal for sure, and smells like a newly minted account to avoid repercussions on a primary account, but banning it for "personal attack" is…

It accuses the GitHub CEO of planning to gut his own company for personal gain. Evidence? None, just his "motive is pretty clear". No, it isn't, and that's a personal attack.

If an established account did this, we'd ask them not to. If a brand new account does this, I'm calling troll.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#924

Diversity is a touchy subject. As a black engineer myself I've worked at three companies where I've been the only black technical worker and it's hard some times. I've gone to conferences where I've been maybe 1 of 5 or 6 engineers out of hundreds. i don't do any hiring but I often wonder if there is a lack of qualified black male or female engineers or what but sometimes I do feel isolated.

You'll see pretty much the same numbers at top American engineering universities. Most of the race/gender disparities we see in tech companies are a direct result of the same disparities seen in tech universities. The problem starts before freshman year of college.

In the case of black, latinos (I am one of them myself) and other minorities I think it is partly a matter of numbers. Black people account for around 13% of the population in the USA.

So in theory, a "natural" number would be to have around 13 black students for every 100 at every university. If it is less, then it may be due to either a) Lack of opportunities or b) Lack of desire enroll in specific subjects.

Here in Mexico face a similar issue with the lack of Women in technical careers (programming in my experience). The fact is that for some reason less women enroll in Soft. Eng. or Comp. Sci. courses... And from the few that enroll, several get out after the first or second "filter subjects" (Data Structures, Programming I, algorithms). Given that there are more females (61 million) than males (58 million), in theory there should be roughly the same number of both in schools.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#925

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Let me apply the principle you claim to be the case in a different, ahistorical way: "'We need to start learning how to simply NOT THINK about denigrating and enslaving blacks, and NOT MENTION IT.' We live in a world where this is not remotely possible. Suggesting it is the worst sort of idealism." --some Southern slave owner, 1859 The same could be applied to historical anti-semitic movements, anti-suffrage gro…

You are setting up an enormous straw man. When you say people like the GP say: > We will always be just as hateful and prejudiced as the worst of us are now. That is emphatically not what the GP is saying. The problem is not the ideal that race should not matter, it's that history does not go away , or more generally we can not build the ideal world from first principles. Those with privilege often wish it was as sim…

I disagree. That is, indeed, effectively what the GP is saying: that we can never rise above the mistakes of the past. That we can never let go of the past and move forward. That we will always be guilty of the sins of people who lived on this plot of land 150 years ago.

And that's all balderdash. In fact, go back in time a few decades, and this was not such a big deal. We were moving on. Fast-forward to today, and we have a new generation of agitators learning how to be outraged at the distant past, fomenting dissent and unrest.

We are not saddled with racist institutions--we are building a new breed of them. And poverty knows not skin color.

And what is it with this idea of police brutality? "black people would still suffer the brunt of police brutality, because they still live in the poorest areas where there is the most crime." There is less police brutality in this country than there has been at any time in its history. Those people you're talking about are suffering from crime. The problem is not police brutality--the problem is crime. Most murdered blacks are murdered by other blacks.

Frankly, how dare you tell anyone that they are not qualified to have an opinion on what is just or fair or right or wrong. That is a stone age attitude if I ever heard one. What you are advocating is effectively a detatched kind of /lex talionis/, one in which the distant descendants of people who were wronged are asked how they should be compensated by the perpetrating of further injustice upon innocents who are in no way responsible for said wrongs of the distant past.

And as a rational human being, I am fully qualified to recognize that injustice, regardless of my skin color or sex.

It's ludicrous. Ask any human being, "Hey, some folks way up your family tree a long time ago were treated wrongly. Therefore, we can give you some free money and bump you to the top of the resume pile. Is that okay with you?" and what do you think they are going to say? The problem is that, in some ways, it is a zero-sum game, because every time one person is given preferential treatment over another, that other person suffers. And that is unjust, unfair, and wrong.

And at the same time, in some ways, it's not a zero-sum game, because when one person suffers injustice, we are all wronged. The only way to stop this is to stop all injustice and treat all people equally. That is the only truly fair, just, and right thing to do. Justice should be blind, and that includes being blind to skin color and sex.

> Don't get defensive and try to prove how non-racist you are.

Why are you saying these things? Show me where I am defensive and trying to prove anything about myself. I am not and have never been the subject of this discussion. You're parroting lines, not participating in a discussion.

> Despite how uncomfortable that makes a lot of people, there really is no way for that legacy to ever be erased.

So, tell me, what is the statute of limitations? When is the expiration date? Apparently 150+ years is not it. Apparently the 600,000 deaths of Union soldiers who died as part of the effort to end slavery isn't part of the equation. So what is it then? 200 years? 500 years? 1,000 years? The dissolution of the nation altogether? If there is truly no end to this "legacy," then why are we stopping at slavery? Why aren't we going back more hundreds or thousands of years to all the other horrific tragedies perpetrated by one group upon another?

Quite seriously, where do you draw the line, and who are you--or anyone else--to make that call?

You don't bail out a sinking ship by pouring water into the ship; you stop the leak and pump out the water. You don't heal broken bones by breaking other people's bones. You cannot solve racism by applying more racism.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#926

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Let me apply the principle you claim to be the case in a different, ahistorical way: "'We need to start learning how to simply NOT THINK about denigrating and enslaving blacks, and NOT MENTION IT.' We live in a world where this is not remotely possible. Suggesting it is the worst sort of idealism." --some Southern slave owner, 1859 The same could be applied to historical anti-semitic movements, anti-suffrage gro…

The actual analogy would be: "We need to start learning how to simply NOT THINK about slavery , and NOT MENTION IT." Do you see why this would not be an effective way to eliminate slavery?

False.

Yours is akin to saying, "Let's sweep slavery under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist."

Mine is akin to saying, "We should no longer even consider enslaving people or treating people badly because their skin is a certain color."

Yours would certainly be ineffective in eliminating slavery because it advocates pretending that it doesn't exist.

Mine is standing up against slavery and saying that the underlying principle used to justify it is morally wrong.

Applied to the issue of reverse racism, yours would be akin to saying, "Let's ignore or even advocate one kind of racism, while condemning another kind."

Mine would be akin to saying, "All racism is wrong. We should all stop being racist in any way, period."

I think the issue is that one side bases its position on moral principles, while the other side bases its position on utilitarianism.

One side says, "Two wrongs don't make a right. -1 - 1 = -2". The other side says, "It's acceptable to do wrong to compensate for another wrong. -1 - 1 = 0."

One side says, "We are not all-knowing or all-wise. We cannot fairly do a concrete injustice to an innocent person to compensate for a perceived injustice done to another innocent person." The other side says, "This innocent person should not complain about being treated unjustly, because this other innocent person has probably been treated unjustly."

One side sees it as a zero-sum game. The other side recognizes that, as long as racism exists in any form, we all lose.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#927
post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just misguided, plain and simple. I am white, male, heterosexual, and from a middle class family, and I absolutely know that my background gives me privilege. It doesn't matter if I earned it or not; I had and still have an advantage over other classes of people, and that is where the hostility is directed. Instead of taking it personally, use this advantage to eliminate as much privilege as possible. Don't s…

So what would you call this? http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/56b3d2f12e526555008...

Not defending it, but that tweet is taken out of a 10-part twitter rant, so it's lacking context.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#928

> While their efforts are admirable it is very hard to even interview people who are 'white' which makes things challenging How is this even legal? Change 'white' for any other race, and you'd have yourself a workplace discrimination lawsuit.

This isn't true of GitHub as a whole, and I'm not sure it is true of any part of GitHub. Their team page shows everybody on staff in the order they were hired. Scroll to the bottom and you will see that there is no shortage of white people being hired. https://github.com/about/team

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#929

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Plenty already has been done, and why do other non-white groups get special status too? Like I said, it's all about shaking down whitey.

Right. Fucking. There. Let me guess, you are a white male tired of people bringing up diversity? Or maybe you have forgotten about the special status given to minorities that brings us to todays topic? If enough was done, we wouldn't be having this conversation. As if "whitey" hasn't been shaking down different groups over the years.

It's clear that the diversiteers doesn't ever intend to define what constitutes "doing enough", and why would they? We keep falling for it.

As for whitey shaking down other groups, so what? That's how the world works... shake or be shaken. I realize this is a topic that brings out a lot of emotions and moralizing in people, but it really is that simple...

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#930

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you can self-host BitBucket also with BitBucket Server[1]. We're starting a migration to it at my work right now. [1] https://www.atlassian.com/software/bitbucket/download

bitbucket server (used to be called stash) has practically no search capability. it's the underappreciated killer feature of github IMO

You're kidding, right? Search in github is so bad that I typically clone a repo and grep it rather than try to find things with their search. And they built a wiki feature without search whatsoever?! (from what I can find) That's absurd
Post reply on HN