I co-wrote a border search guide for EFF some years ago. I was very interested in finding clever technical approaches but I later ended up feeling that I hadn't given enough thought to the overall threat model questions (even though the guide did address them, perhaps even somewhat usefully). The big picture problem is that the agents performing the searches have an enormous amount of power in terms of potentially se…
There are 2 cases routine inspections and targeted investigations. If it's a routine inspection, being uncooperative will probably lead them to escalate. You generally want to keep things routine and boring. If they want to access your device you have to weigh the costs, just log out of everything before you fly and throw away your device after they have had access to it, it's now compromised. If you are targeted you…
US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search
911–920 of 1001 posts
Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search
#912Earlier quoted context omitted.
Someone else commented about the law being “non-autistic”, this is a perfect example of that. The technicality of the encryption keys vs the files is irrelevant, the intent was to successfully prevent a search. The border agents will not be even remotely impressed or suddenly decide to release you just because you say “well the files are technically still there”.
What they should really do is make the decryption key backupable. Then you can keep it at home, and you can genuinely say that you don't remember it because it's like 128 digits. And you're not "destroying evidence" in the jurisdiction in question because the phone is already locked. And you can't unlock it on demand.
that seems like a security nightmare...
Passing through immigration with a fully reset phone does the same. The full encrypted backup is on a HD at home. Nothing to access on the phone.
Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search
#913After reading more of this thread I'm kind of frustrated that people aren't aware of the border search exception. I strongly disagree with the border search exception and would like to see it drastically limited or abolished. It is also something that has clearly existed in caselaw for decades (arguably for centuries) and that the courts have routinely (to my regret) strongly reaffirmed. The border search doctrine sa…
The thing you are missing is that although that doctrine weakens the 4th Amendment, there's no precedent it weakens the first and 5th amendment afaik. There's no US law requiring key disclosure and there have been mixed court cases outcomes on whether people have to provide encryption keys.
I would love for that to be the rule at the border just as elsewhere, but it's very far away from what the courts have been saying so far, as well as what CBP has done for many years.
Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search
#914Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search
#915Earlier quoted context omitted.
"U.S. law though is highly non-autistic" hilarious but also another point to emphasize is how truly depressing American courts often are. Take the right to a jury. It sounds noble in theory. But when they say judged by your peers they don't mean your actual peers. It's people who couldn't get out of jury duty. Prosecutors have high success rates. Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90%. Studies of jury psycholo…
As a convicted felon for the last 25 years without a single incident since I was released. I tell everyone I know to never trust a single thing anyone says if there is any chance you are being looked at for criminal charges. It's "I want a lawyer" and nothing else. Just SHUT THE FUCK UP, don't call me, your parents, someone to bail you out. Call a mother fucking lawyer. Because once you get your sleeve caught up in t…
(By the way, in many countries, like in India, if you do/say that to the police you might lose few of your bones and possibly normal functioning of few limbs and organs. Oh the constitution prevents that just fine here as well and quite strongly at that. The thing is constitution isn't an omnipotent and omnipresent just vigilante sentient being that is available to protect everyone everywhere all the time.)
Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search
#916Earlier quoted context omitted.
the funny part is he didn't enter the pin he gave it to them and they entered it..., not sure if it makes any difference but there is a certain irony to it that it was the non warrant based search actions (which might be legal at the border) which lead to the erasure of data
Edit for the confused and misinformed: 18 USC 1001. Also, is ≠ ought. Lying to a federal officer is a crime, IIRC, and if the lie results in destruction of evidence, the person who told the lie is probably accountable for both crimes. This isn't a lie with plausible deniability: you have to set a duress PIN, understanding what it does, and then communicate that PIN instead of the unlock PIN. A duress PIN to wipe the…
my original comment was really just about the irony and the vage formulation wrt. legality was mainly there because I wasn't sure if there might be subtle differences between "destroying evidence yourself" and "deceiving officers to destroy evidence for you", both of which are obviously not legal
The level to which people insist on nitpicking formulations with the intend to intentionally misinterpret what meaning the author tried to convey is honestly frustrating. Weather it's people which think they can doge laws, make it ethical okay to scam people or start hate complain on twitter because someones post can be misinterpreted when nit picking it's formulation reading each sentence out of context it's all unproductive, destructive and IMHO pretty mean behavior. It's also IMHO quite quixotic(1) to believe the world does or should work that way, at least IRL/outside of X. I mean in which word is it desirable that criminals can doge legal responsibility through "clever speech" or similar.
Like getting back to this case
- sure the boarder police has to much power to harass people, sure some degree of search for physical smuggling goods is needed, but as there is little point in physically smuggling digital goods (assuming you aren't North Korea) any digital searching right requiring phone unlock is more then just one step too far. Especially given how this can be abused by unlawful officers, weather it's in context of impersonation, snooping into very private matter (e.g. sexting of wife) or outright trying to breach attorney-client privilege or size companies trade secrets
- similar him being internally labeled as a "terrorist" while most likely by any sane definition only being a "activist" is nothing new, but very much not what any state of law should do
- so anything leading up to the phone unlock requirement most likely shouldn't happen
- BUT iff there where a search warrant on him for an actual reasonable matter, then yes deceiving the officers to delete his data for him by giving them a duress pin _should_ have legal consequences. Everything else would be absurd. But also a ethical & legal warrant requires that there is a well founded suspicion of there being evidence in the searched places, e.g. based on evidence of the person being entangled into criminal activity or similar.
Or in other words the problem here isn't that using a duress pin has legal consequences, but that, from the facts we have, from a democratic/state of law POV, it should never have come to a point where he is under duress to give out the PIN. Which also seems to be roughly the direction his defense goes, but that isn't fully clear from the article.
Lastly there is a (slim) possibility of him actually being a criminal by any reasonable standard playing victim, sure it doesn't look like it. But it's worth mentioning as people love an underdog story and love to hate on police/boarder control, but not every underdog is a good person sometimes police does the right thing.
Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search
#917Whether authoring such a feature is itself a criminal act is an outrageous question, to which the answer should be an obvious, and emphatic "no".
Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search
#918I co-wrote a border search guide for EFF some years ago. I was very interested in finding clever technical approaches but I later ended up feeling that I hadn't given enough thought to the overall threat model questions (even though the guide did address them, perhaps even somewhat usefully). The big picture problem is that the agents performing the searches have an enormous amount of power in terms of potentially se…
There are 2 cases routine inspections and targeted investigations. If it's a routine inspection, being uncooperative will probably lead them to escalate. You generally want to keep things routine and boring. If they want to access your device you have to weigh the costs, just log out of everything before you fly and throw away your device after they have had access to it, it's now compromised. If you are targeted you…
Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search
#919Earlier quoted context omitted.
"U.S. law though is highly non-autistic" hilarious but also another point to emphasize is how truly depressing American courts often are. Take the right to a jury. It sounds noble in theory. But when they say judged by your peers they don't mean your actual peers. It's people who couldn't get out of jury duty. Prosecutors have high success rates. Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90%. Studies of jury psycholo…
> Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90%. This is a misunderstood statistic. Federal prosecutors won't even pursue cases unless they think there's a high chance of success. They don't operate like two private parties suing each other to force the court to decide something. If the evidence is there or the charges aren't fully formed, they don't waste resources on it. This leads to a contradictory set of complai…
Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search
#920Earlier quoted context omitted.
Edit for the confused and misinformed: 18 USC 1001. Also, is ≠ ought. Lying to a federal officer is a crime, IIRC, and if the lie results in destruction of evidence, the person who told the lie is probably accountable for both crimes. This isn't a lie with plausible deniability: you have to set a duress PIN, understanding what it does, and then communicate that PIN instead of the unlock PIN. A duress PIN to wipe the…
I’m quite unfamiliar with this notion. What law says it’s illegal to lie when you’re not under oath during a court proceeding?
But also I don't think a duress pin _usage_ should be legal, _during a lawful search_ (not unlocking your phone is a different topic, similar a duress pin which restarts your phone in lock-down mode to prevent extraction of encryption secrets from memory is another topic).
The reason is quite simple, allowing it would mean allowing actual criminals to delete evidence, which isn't desirable.
Through the "during a lawful search" part is the very important part.|And independent of weather or not the search in this case was lawful, _it shouldn't have been_. Boarder police expanded search powers should be limited to finding _physical_ smuggling/illegal goods, not phone searches (for _many_ reasons). And definitively not for a citizen without warrant, as this effectively means fundamental rights don't apply to US citizens when re-entering the US, which is ridiculous and IMHO should be found unconstitutional (sadly probably won't). (Also labeling activists as terrorist is a huge no-go for a state of law, so is making up supposedly committed crimes).
So while using a duress pin during a lawful search should IMHO always have some legal consequences, using it during a unlawful search should be fully allowed. But this still kinda sucks as finding a search unlawful requires a judge. Still if phone search in general aren't legal without warrant (IMHO they shouldn't) this would be a pretty simple case and the police should be required to drop charges without going to court if it's fully clear it is their fault...