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Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

reuters.com

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Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#911

Post by artyom »

keeda wrote: post #857

A few people here have been impacted, so I want to talk about something constructive that could help them. As someone observing industry trends from the outside for a while, my advice to those looking to get hired these days: Build something useful from scratch – on your own –- that you can show off as soon as possible. The buzzword everyone is looking for is "high-agency." (No, not those agents, but yes, those will…

I understand that your advice comes from the right place. However "High-agency" is the "Full-stack Engineer" of the AI era.

A single salary covering many disparage positions and roles. It's been reworded b/c with AI, apparently you don't even need to be an engineer (or expect to be paid as one) anymore!

Nothing new under the sun.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#912

Post by bamboozled »

rishabhaiover wrote: post #156
pier25 wrote: post #113

My read of this: Their AI costs have increased 600% but this hasn't translated into actual revenue. Also they are probably projecting AI costs to keep growing. They've done the math and at some point it is going to affect their bottom line. Reducing or limiting AI usage would be inconceivable given Cloudflare itself has invested on AI and is selling AI services. Instead they've opted for reducing about 20% of their h…

I don't think so. I think this is a common narrative in Hackernews when layoff news are shared. All the people I talk to in the industry positively confirm a boost in productivity. Its contribution to actual revenue could lag but it is present and confirmed by many.

I feel new startups, features and more services coming online would be a good measurement of this amazing productivity boost we're seeing.

Have you noticed a major improvement in every service you pay for ? Like many new features and incredible improvements in user experience and reliability? Because I’ve not really noticed that. Actually, things seem to be offline more than they used to, namely GitHub.

I am definitely more productive at generating lines of code though which definitely gives me the illusion things are mOvInG rEaLly FaSt.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#913

Post by the_af »

moregrist wrote: post #840
the_af wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is completely acceptable. When was the last time you saw any job seeker seriously enquire about such practices in interviews or at the application stage? Well, this is not something you can safely ask in most interviews. Also, while there's some sort of HN/hackerdom fiction that the job seeker holds some power during the interview, for most job seekers the interview is strongly imbalanced towards the interview…

While you can't really ask "will I be layed off next year," it's pretty common to ask some version of "why is the role open," usually split among a few questions (that you'd tailor based on the role): - "Which of my skills do you think are most valuable for this role?" - "How would you measure success in this role?" - "Can you tell me a little more about the product lines we'll be developing / supporting?" - "How is…

I hear you, but the answers to these questions in my experience are always of the kind "we're looking to hire capable people with skills X, Y, Z for projects A & B".

These don't give you any idea about the health of the company or how precarious your new job will be.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#914

Post by conjectures »

sneak wrote: post #900
bartread wrote: post #879

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so ethically and morally odious I struggle to find the words to describe it. I’ve managed people out. I’m sure I’ll have to do it again. I’ve even let people go during probation but, on the rare occasions that’s happened, I’ve seen it as a failure of the hiring process. People have families, they have mortgages, bills to pay, and a powerful need to eat (Mal, Serenity?). The last thing I want is for someone to…

> People have families, they have mortgages, bills to pay, and a powerful need to eat (Mal, Serenity?). The last thing I want is for someone to give up a stable job that allows them to do that to come and work for me only so I can fire them and leave them up the creek a few weeks or months down the line. Literally none of that is the employer’s responsibility. It’s just a business transaction. Having sufficient savin…

Only if they are being honest. Offer this as a 12 month temp contract with possibility of continuation. Offering a role as permanent but with unvoiced intent to let go, that's dishonest. Being honest is always a responsibility.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#915

Post by datadrivenangel »

ok_dad wrote: post #867
draftsman wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I think we’ll see more and more of this as companies continue to encourage their employees to use LLMs everywhere and for everything. Eventually they will have to come to terms with the cost of such mandates, and it’s either ask your employees to “use AI less,” or it’s let some percentage go and continue to let the rest burn tokens.

I am perplexed at how it can cost so much. I have been using AI every day, all day for a few months now and I have not even gotten to spending $300 a month. I use Cursor for teams, so we get ~$80 of usage for our ~$40 per member, then we pay Cursor's upcharged API rates from there, and I STILL don't spend more than $300 a month, if that. What the hell is everyone doing with their fucking tokens?

You set cursor to use Opus 4.7 and ask it to review your branch commits and then it looks at stuff for a bit and that's $10.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#916

Post by epolanski »

anal_reactor wrote: post #295
rdtsc wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder if they'll do it like they did for Brittany Pietsch. She recorded her firing video some years ago. I think it's on tiktok but there are youtube videos discussing it as well. Anyway, new employee at Cloudflare, just finished onboarding. Suddenly a short meeting is scheduled with two people she had never met before. She is told she is let go for "performance" reasons. She kind of tears into them with "what perfo…

I found that video and I couldn't finish watching it. TBH it's really incomprehensible to me why we've created a culture where being so heartless is praised upon.

That's how the world works, we just automated and hidden most of the disgusting stuff.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#917

Post by onli »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #836
onli wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is obviously lying about the layoff reason minimizing the lawsuit area? It's ripping it wide open I'd think.

The point is that HR declining to engage with her questions does not prove that they were lying. Even if they have 100% ironclad proof that they're in the right, what possible value is there in having an argument about it? Will she feel any better, and will they look any better to social media, if they deliver a 5 minute lecture on everything the company feels is wrong with her and her work? (What is true, and what t…

Maybe for context: In systems with worker protections, lying about this can be a crime. For example in Germany, if you want to fire someone for bad performance, you have to tell him before about the problem and give him the opportunity to improve, more than once. Even if a country like the USA, one that has nothing but disdain for the working class, does not have any such protections, the moral sentiment of non-brainwashed humans will not accept such amoral behaviour. So yes, ofc she might feel better if given an understandable reason, and yes, they might have looked better on social media, and more importantly: They might have felt better after behaving like humans.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#918

Post by epolanski »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #304
argee wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think about investing in Cloudflare but that P/E ratio scares me off every time.

Their revenue is growing 30% yoy, so investors are speculating it to pay off in the end.

The more they grow the harder it is to follow such rates.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#919

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

onli wrote: post #917
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that HR declining to engage with her questions does not prove that they were lying. Even if they have 100% ironclad proof that they're in the right, what possible value is there in having an argument about it? Will she feel any better, and will they look any better to social media, if they deliver a 5 minute lecture on everything the company feels is wrong with her and her work? (What is true, and what t…

Maybe for context: In systems with worker protections, lying about this can be a crime. For example in Germany, if you want to fire someone for bad performance, you have to tell him before about the problem and give him the opportunity to improve, more than once. Even if a country like the USA, one that has nothing but disdain for the working class, does not have any such protections, the moral sentiment of non-brain…

In Germany, this woman would have been only halfway done with her 6 month probation period and the company would not be required to do these things. Again, you’re assuming without evidence that they were lying; an obvious alternative explanation is that her performance was genuinely not satisfactory, and she didn’t understand or wouldn’t listen to the feedback she got to that effect.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#920

Post by fzeroracer »

erulabs wrote: post #785
RHSeeger wrote: post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employees can and do choose these companies completely of their own volition. Except for the part where, some of the time, it's "this company, or I can't buy food or pay my rent".

I think you have to squint pretty hard to think that's the case in software engineering. LA Times suggests there are 6.9 million job openings (1). I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that anyone who wants a job in tech should get one otherwise its a humanitarian crisis. In fact, I'd say it's beyond unreasonable to suggest that. Still, I do feel bad for younger folks trying to break into the industry - but "work…

Most job openings are fake. Ghost jobs are a real and growing problem as dishonest businesses use it to signal growth without the actual intent to hire.
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