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The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

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Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#911

Post by defrost »

sunaookami wrote: post #909
antitoxic wrote: post #390

I work at a European identity wallet system that uses a zero knowledge proof age identification system. It derives an age attribute such as "over 18" from a passport or ID, without disclosing any other information such as the date of birth. As long as you trust the government that gave out the ID, you can trust the attribute, and anonymously verify somebodies age. I think there are many pros and cons to be said about…

No one would be foolish enough to trust their government nor the EU. You should be ashamed of working for such "people". Thanks for helping implementing a surveillance state.

You don't have to trust your government to employ them, the key is to bake in and maintain rigorous checks and balances, demand transparency, routinely audit and fire people for corruption, etc.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#912

Post by dahauns »

nicbou wrote: post #894
antitoxic wrote: post #390

I work at a European identity wallet system that uses a zero knowledge proof age identification system. It derives an age attribute such as "over 18" from a passport or ID, without disclosing any other information such as the date of birth. As long as you trust the government that gave out the ID, you can trust the attribute, and anonymously verify somebodies age. I think there are many pros and cons to be said about…

Immigrants do not have an ID for up to a few years when they move to Germany. Just this week the Berlin immigration office stopped issuing plastic residence cards for budget reasons, so people get a sticker in their passport. Passport recognition is also spotty. The ID verification providers used by banks do not recognise Indian passports. Will we exclude a few million people because it’s too expensive to verify that…

In Austria you don't need an Austrian passport/Personalausweis for a Digital ID registration. Your original passport (or equivalent) in combination with a certificate of residence, student permit or similar is fine.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#913

Post by sfdlkj3jk342a »

coffeefirst wrote: post #94
bondarchuk wrote: post #34

It's kind of weird to me how every article on this topic here has people rushing to comment within a couple minutes with some generic "yes I too support ID checks for internet use!". Has the vibe really shifted so much among tech-literate people?

There’s some nuance here. Realizing that much of the internet is totally toxic to children now and should have a means of keeping them out is distinct from agreeing to upload ID to everything. A better implementation would be to have a device/login level parental control setting that passed age restriction signals via browsers and App Stores. This is both a simpler design and privacy friendly.

There already is a means to keep children away from toxic content: parents (possibly with the help of locally run content blocking software).

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#914

Post by sharperguy »

armchairhacker wrote: post #289
horsawlarway wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how this is any better. It's my job as a parent (and I have several kids...) to monitor the things they consume and talk with them about it. I don't want some blanket ban on content unless it's "age appropriate", because I don't approve that content being banned. (honestly - the idea of "age appropriate" is insulting in the first place) Fuck man, I can even legally give my kids alcohol - I don't se…

You should be able to choose what's age-appropriate for your kids. Giving them access to e.g. "PG-13" media when they're 9 isn't the problem. Giving mature kids unrestricted access isn't a problem. The problem is culture: - Many parents don't think about restricting their kids' online exposure at all. And I think a larger issue than NSFW is the amount of time kids are spending: 5 hours according to this survey from 2…

Part of the issue with phones is that they are already controlled by the Google/Apple duopoly, and hence heavily optimized for constant distraction and addiction. These laws only cement that duopoly and provide fewer means to build more friendly platforms.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#915

Post by padjo »

antitoxic wrote: post #390

I work at a European identity wallet system that uses a zero knowledge proof age identification system. It derives an age attribute such as "over 18" from a passport or ID, without disclosing any other information such as the date of birth. As long as you trust the government that gave out the ID, you can trust the attribute, and anonymously verify somebodies age. I think there are many pros and cons to be said about…

The requirement to use google or apple services is a deal breaker. If I can't verify my age using an EU wallet without having an account with a US tech company what is the point of any of this?

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#916

Post by sunaookami »

cubefox wrote: post #174
agentultra wrote: post #101

There are alternatives to ID verification if the goal is protecting children. You could, for example, make it illegal to target children with targeted advertising campaigns and addictive content. Then throw the executives who authorized such programs in jail. Punish the people causing the harm.

To avoid your proposed punishment, they will implement things like ... ID verification.

Easy solution: Ban all targeted advertising, regardless of age.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#917

Post by causal »

aqme28 wrote: post #148

If we're going to do this at all, it should be on the device, not the website/app. Parents flag their child's device or browser as under 18, and websites/apps follow suit. Parents get the control they're looking for, while service providers don't have to verify or store IDs. I guess it's just more difficult to pressure big dogs like google/apple/mozilla for this than pornhub and discord.

I’ve wondered if a age verification gig worker app could ever be viable: have people you can meet in person to prove your age without ever uploading any PII anywhere. Then issue a private key proving you are who you say you are.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#918

Post by cubefox »

sunaookami wrote: post #916
cubefox wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To avoid your proposed punishment, they will implement things like ... ID verification.

Easy solution: Ban all targeted advertising, regardless of age.

Banning targeted advertising doesn't help against pornography.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#919

Post by mirpa »

eleveriven wrote: post #905

We've spent 30 years telling people "don't share personal info online" and now the compliance path is "upload your ID or face so you can browse memes"

Non of which is necessary to verify you crossed age threshold. Websites are just lazy, maybe on purpose. Accepting this kind of low effort age verification would be foolish.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#920

Post by meowface »

elictronic wrote: post #802
meowface wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very odd. I see it everywhere I go. I think a lot of the younger generation supports it, actually. They didn't really grow up with a culture of internet anonymity and some degree of privacy.

The younger generation is growing up where the internet is a giant dumpster fire of enshitification that a tanker full of gasoline just got poured on in the form of AI chatbots. With agents becoming even easier the equivalent of script kiddies are going to make it so much worse. Privacy with respect to the government was one of the final pillars, but when everything placed on the internet is absorbed by the alphabets…

Giving up one's privacy and anonymity will solve nothing. Bots will buy stolen IDs and use those anyway, as well.
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