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FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

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Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#911

Post by sowbug »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #723
amarant wrote: post #632

What is it like in the US these days? I'm on the outside (occasionally) looking in, and it looks like something out of European history class! The ice seem to have roughly the same priorities and roughly the same methodology as the SA had in the beginning. Is stuff really as bad as it looks or are media somehow exaggerating things? I mean I saw the pretti videos and it certainly seems to corroborate what media is say…

People are experiencing wildly different Americas depending on their circumstances and level of political involvement. If you're a tech worker and you still have a job and you think AI is pretty cool and you don't follow news very closely, things seem okay...ish. You are maybe dimly aware of some social problems, but they're all somebody else's problems. If you're one of the many many thousands of people who have bee…

The US has less than 5% of the world's population, but 25% of the world's incarcerated. So we're already exceptional in terms of numbness to incarceration.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#913

Post by array_key_first »

disposition2 wrote: post #864
tuetuopay wrote: post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in one of our concentration camps As a European, I find the use of "concentration camp" to be a very strong word. Trump and its administration are often touted as a Nazi and such. How much of this is hyperbole, and how much of this is real? Nazis were systemic against a religion and disabilities. They made systemic ways of exterminating those deemed "unpure". The concentration camps had gas chambers to kill people.…

I think maybe OP was using the traditional definition of the word, and hopefully not trying to imply we have Treblinka’s across the US. But there is some cause for concern regarding the detention centers and the lack of oversight. For example, even Congress members have to provide 7 days of notice if they wish to visit a center [1]. So, the only real oversight is from the executive. And these centers are often ran by…

This doesn't even touch our, ahem, overseas facilities, which certainly do not have the same standards.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#914

Post by QuercusMax »

nailer wrote: post #836
glaugh wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean just technically trivial? I agree with that. If you mean more broadly trivial, I see that quite differently. An administration that has repeatedly abused its power in order to intimidate and punish political opponents is opening an investigation into grassroots political opponents. That feels worth being concerned about.

> grassroots political opponents Organised criminal activity. Edit: I’m not complaining about moderation but it would be fascinating to know what part of this others believe is incorrect: - Do you think the Anti ICE groups are not organised? - Do you think obstructing federal officers is not criminal? - Something else.

Preventing out-of-control federal officers from committing crimes is NOT criminal. Especially when you don't even know if they ARE federal officers, and won't show their faces, badges, or warrants.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#915

Post by rickydroll »

nailer wrote: post #836
glaugh wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean just technically trivial? I agree with that. If you mean more broadly trivial, I see that quite differently. An administration that has repeatedly abused its power in order to intimidate and punish political opponents is opening an investigation into grassroots political opponents. That feels worth being concerned about.

> grassroots political opponents Organised criminal activity. Edit: I’m not complaining about moderation but it would be fascinating to know what part of this others believe is incorrect: - Do you think the Anti ICE groups are not organised? - Do you think obstructing federal officers is not criminal? - Something else.

Organized as in they have meetings, serve cookies, and coffee? Most likely not. These anti-ice groups seem to be extemporaneous meetups.

Define obstruction. Everything reported, blowing whistles, encouraging businesses not provide service to ICE agents, and recording from a distance is not obstruction. It's a First Amendment right to keep government forces in check.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#916

Post by krunck »

heavyset_go wrote: post #603
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the Signal Messaging LLC is compromised, then "updates", e.g., spyware, can be remotely installed on every Signal user's computer, assuming every Signal user allows "automatic updates". I don't think Signal has a setting to turn off updates Not only does one have to worry about other Signal users being compromised, one also has to worry about a third party being compromised: the Signal Messaaging LLC

Signal Messaging LLC is US-based and needs to follow CALEA[1] by law. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_...

But does it? In what way?

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#917

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

mw888 wrote: post #523

There seems to be wild speculation about freedom of speech rights or hacking Signal. The FBI simply joined groupchats and read them. This is trivial stuff.

Funny how HN discussions about the development of encrypted messaging apps often include remarks from commenters about the need for a "group chat" feature

In some cases, popular messaging apps that initially did not provide "group chat" have since added this "feature", apparently in response to "user demand"

The so-called "tech" companies that control these apps from Silicon Valley and Redmond have aligned with one political party, generally whichever party is in power, for "business" reasons, e.g., doing whatever is necessary to ensure their continued profits free from regulation

Surveillance is their core business

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#918

Post by mycodendral »

kennywinker wrote: post #274
mycodendral wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federal felony, not free speech. 18 U.S.C. § 372 - Conspiring to impede or interfere with a federal officer

Are these federal officers? They’re men in masks with camo and body armor kidnapping people off the streets and refusing to show identification beyond a patch that says “ICE”. That is who is alleged to be impeded.

Yes, they are federal officers. There is no pattern of mass kidnappings by impersonators occurring here.

Interpreting masked officers in tactical gear as kidnappers, or claiming that a patch saying “ICE” is insufficient identification, is not a legally valid basis for suspicion or resistance.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#919

Post by mycodendral »

derbOac wrote: post #140
mycodendral wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federal felony, not free speech. 18 U.S.C. § 372 - Conspiring to impede or interfere with a federal officer

There's been lots of legal writing pointing out these statutes basically refer to impeding an officer by threat or physical force, which that statute you cite states. It doesn't refer to anything about providing food to someone who is fearing for their lives and won't leave the home, or communicating about the publicly observed whereabouts of law enforcement.

"molest, interrupt, hinder, or impede him in the discharge of his official duties"

The explicit coordination of things like: vehicle blocking, personnel blocking, personnel removal, disruptive distraction could clearly qualify.

How the courts choose to interpret & prosecute is up to them.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#920

Post by nailer »

amarant wrote: post #632

What is it like in the US these days? I'm on the outside (occasionally) looking in, and it looks like something out of European history class! The ice seem to have roughly the same priorities and roughly the same methodology as the SA had in the beginning. Is stuff really as bad as it looks or are media somehow exaggerating things? I mean I saw the pretti videos and it certainly seems to corroborate what media is say…

It’s the same as in the EU or Britain or the US ten years ago, where unauthorised migration is handled by law enforcement, except in some states the organised vigilante groups form this article exist and endanger everybody. The government hasn’t run amok: the laws are the same.
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