Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#911

Post by x0x0 » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 5:48 PM UTC

Bewelge wrote: post #763

baxtr wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems are in the details: why are news organizations exempt from this rule in Europe? You can’t read news websites unless you accept all cookies or pay to read. Who decides these things? How is such a rule in favor of privacy? Why is my site where I regularly post news not eligible? Who decides which sites are eligible? It’s these kind of moral double standards and cognitive dissonances that people have to end…

Are you sure they are exempt? I was always under the impression that their practice is pretty obviously illegal. I just did a quick google search and didn't find anything about exemption. So they are as exempt from the GDPR as much as Al Capone was exempt from taxes ;) What they seem to be exempt from is getting consent if they require the data for journalistic purposes. IANAL, but I think they are simply not followi…

the edpb did not. that was explicitly -- in the very first paragraph -- under the DSA, not GDPR:

> The scope of this opinion is indeed limited to the implementation by large online platforms

Separately, in the first couple of paragraphs, they basically complain that they don't like the alternative that platforms can legally implement of paywalls for all. :shrug: Which they may not like, but is legal. So consent or pay is essentially a realpolitik deal to not implement paywalls.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#912

Post by zrn900 » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 5:52 PM UTC

gruturo wrote: post #768

zrn900 wrote: post #182

From Europe, I agree with big tech getting it. But i dont agree with random flower shop somewhere getting fined because they dont know how to deal with a f cking complicated, ever-changing law that is designed for megacorps who have the cash to just keep paying the fine and abusing everyone. I also dont agree with dealing with f cking cookie banners on every other website either. The law got SO convoluted over 9 year…

> The law got SO convoluted over 9 years of interpretation by the European courts that its now impossible to be 100% compliant It absolutely isn't. I set up a blog for a friend where she shows her art and publishes an appearances itinerary/schedule. It doesn't collect ANY info from visitors, therefore requires no cookie banner at all. Simple as that. HTTP logs are retained for 7 days for security analysis and then wi…

> HTTP logs are retained for 7 days

There you go. The moment you save any information that can help identify someone for any period, you are within the scope of the law. God forbid you keep the IPS for any reason.

> for security analysis

The law doesnt give a zit about what you do it for. If you retain any personal info or set any cookie, you have to tell the user about it and give options.

> Matomo instance

Hahaha - matomo itself is non-compliant with the law. Its developers think that anonymizing info or collecting bits and pieces for functional info and setting a cookie for that purpose allows you not to show a banner. That's wrong. It doesnt matter for what you collect info or set a cookie - the moment you set a cookie, you have to show a cookie banner and tell exactly what you are collecting and what you are using it for. Even for functional cookies.

The only way you can be compliant with this law is by setting an apache header or something to delete all cookies the moment they are set so that you wont leave any cookie. Even in that case, you may be responsible for you are holding that information even for a few miliseconds. (yeah, you as a techie think that its not important, but law doesnt work that way). Best chance is to have a server that does not set any cookie or collect any info in any way. Good job preventing spam, fraud, ddos with such a setup.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#913

Post by huijzer » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 5:55 PM UTC

epolanski wrote: post #828

I'm not understanding, as an European who's been part of multiple startups how's that supposed to boost growth. There's literally 0 startups I've been part of where data protection laws or even the infamous cookie banners have been anywhere near relevant (unless your business was literally profiling). In fact the actors that most opposed those laws have always been non Europeans. Sure, there is an attached cost in ha…

> bureaucracy to fight at European level so we still don't have a real unified market, neither in physical goods (our economy's backbone) nor services which doesn't allow national startups to scale at European level

I guess you have been part of software startups and you severely underestimate the bureaucracy that is involved in physical companies nowadays. Farmers, fishermen, factory-owners, and other small to medium size companies all have severe difficulties with ever increasing regulations. By itself the regulations are not always bad, but usually it takes way too long to get through the system which makes it hard to compete with, for example, China.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#914

Post by immibis » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 6:00 PM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #909

super256 wrote: post #885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share the projects? In most cases it is very, very easy to comply with the *"random laws" (not that GDPR is much different from California's CPRA. Are you blocking Californian users too?)

Sorry, that's nonsense. cpra has a carveout for small businesses. gdpr has your one person company obey the same rules as meta.

This brings up the point that for some reason we're all terrified of the government. Maybe because we see the daily abuse from the USA? But if you accidentally violated the GDPR while in good faith trying to follow it, the most likely outcome is being ordered to fix it.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#915

Post by immibis » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 6:01 PM UTC

wave84 wrote: post #901

epolanski wrote: post #828

I'm not understanding, as an European who's been part of multiple startups how's that supposed to boost growth. There's literally 0 startups I've been part of where data protection laws or even the infamous cookie banners have been anywhere near relevant (unless your business was literally profiling). In fact the actors that most opposed those laws have always been non Europeans. Sure, there is an attached cost in ha…

Here's my take, as a Romanian developer (since 2004ish). One day I got a letter from the national authority regarding personal data where I was asked to reply to 15 questions regarding a personal project of mine, invoking the GDPR. The sanctions for not complying within 5 days was an incremental fine of 600 euros PER DAY, until I complied. This letter was directed to me as a natural person (not even my company). Anot…

Did you consider running non-tracking ads? Of course not because even after the 30% drop, the spyware still pays more, right? But destroying websites with spyware is literally what the law is for - the people have voted to nuke your website from orbit.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#916

Post by immibis » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 6:02 PM UTC

Workaccount2 wrote: post #853

epolanski wrote: post #828

I'm not understanding, as an European who's been part of multiple startups how's that supposed to boost growth. There's literally 0 startups I've been part of where data protection laws or even the infamous cookie banners have been anywhere near relevant (unless your business was literally profiling). In fact the actors that most opposed those laws have always been non Europeans. Sure, there is an attached cost in ha…

The biggest hurdle Europe has to face is the cultural shift away from the post-soviet era of "Don't take work too seriously, enjoy life". There is now a full generation of Europeans who grew up in with this mentality, looking down on Americans for their ridiculous work ethic and comparatively meager benefits. But it's not sustainable, and the strain is already becoming obvious. Young Europeans will have to work longe…

We could just, like, not give billionaires so much money, and there will be more left for everyone else.

Yeah, if we want to be the world superpower we have to work really hard. But we definitely won't get any of the benefits of being the world superpower - just like Americans don't already - all of it accrues to billionaires. And it'll make the rent really high. So why should we want that? Of course, we don't want anyone else to be a world superpower either, because kings/dictators/emperors are bad.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#917

Post by buzzert » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 6:06 PM UTC

goobatrooba wrote: post #218

schnitzelstoat wrote: post #5

> One change that’s likely to please almost everyone is a reduction in Europe’s ubiquitous cookie banners and pop-ups. Under the new proposal, some “non-risk” cookies won’t trigger pop-ups at all, and users would be able to control others from central browser controls that apply to websites broadly. Finally!

The funny part is that many banners are already now not required. But there has been much propaganda by adtech around it, to rule people up against tracking protections and promote their own "solutions". That's the reason you see the same 3-5 cookie banners all around the web. Already today websites that use purely technical cookies would not actually not need any banners at all.

Why do European government websites do the same thing then? They’re also spreading propaganda?

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#918

Post by buzzert » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 6:12 PM UTC

emsign wrote: post #883

Now we are fucked too as EU citizens. I hate AI more and more! MY DATA IS MINE. I hate the future. I just hope this gets sacked by the parliament or the judges. If not I need to find ways to keep as much personal data to myself as possible. The internet has become a very hostile environment for real humans and we need to learn to tread very carefully and avoid giving anything to the data poachers. My life is not a re…

You don’t need politicians to help you keep your personal data to yourself.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#919

Post by epolanski » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 6:16 PM UTC

huijzer wrote: post #913

epolanski wrote: post #828

I'm not understanding, as an European who's been part of multiple startups how's that supposed to boost growth. There's literally 0 startups I've been part of where data protection laws or even the infamous cookie banners have been anywhere near relevant (unless your business was literally profiling). In fact the actors that most opposed those laws have always been non Europeans. Sure, there is an attached cost in ha…

> bureaucracy to fight at European level so we still don't have a real unified market, neither in physical goods (our economy's backbone) nor services which doesn't allow national startups to scale at European level I guess you have been part of software startups and you severely underestimate the bureaucracy that is involved in physical companies nowadays. Farmers, fishermen, factory-owners, and other small to mediu…

How am I underestimating it when it's literally in the quote you provided?

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#920

Post by Moosdijk » Thu, Nov 20, 2025, 6:19 PM UTC

mortarion wrote: post #856

matthewdgreen wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would go farther. Privacy laws seem like an excellent way to tighten the internal European market and develop homegrown competitors, which (one might argue) Europe really needs. If Europe is loosening up those laws, does that help Europe? Or does it help Meta and Google and Microsoft?

Europe has a shitload of homegrown competitors. The problem is that users here in Europe either goes for a national service or for an US service. They don't look up what their EU neighbor has to offer. In fact, most don't bother translating their services to appeal to the entire EU market. If you live in country X, you will only ever learn about services from country X or from the US. No one here knows what goes on i…

I never really looked at it that way, but I think you're right. Although, non-European-owned companies aren't necessarily incentivized to look towards European companies. Looking towards your European neighbors mostly comes down to logistical situations. In those sectors, multilingual services are more common.