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Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

greeneuropeanjournal.eu

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#911

Post by prmoustache »

an_aparallel wrote: post #888
prmoustache wrote: post #856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"so that people can easily walk from store to store (similar to the experience of shopping inside a indoor mall), " That is funny to read that, because indoor malls were meant to replicate the experience of shopping in a commercial area in a city, not the opposite. It actually failed though. I feel terrible, sleepy and only want to get out after more than half an hour in these indoor malls. Probably something that ha…

The gruen transfer...look it up :)

Interesting. I guess the loud music and high temperature in some clothing stores is meant to achieve the same. They look like methofs law inforcement would use in an hostage situation.

In my case it gives me the urge of leaving as soon as possible. I could see how it could create impulse buy but most of the time I go to a shopping mall, it is to be able to try out clothing before buying and I will just lose patience and go away if it doesn't fit well. I tend to avoid them as much as I can anyway.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#912

Post by fennecbutt »

Tbf they should do this in London too. They're looking to pedestrianise Oxford Street, but who knows when that will happen as we need to allow plenty of time for the government to find the right contractors to shovel money at for a project delivered overtime and underbudget.

A lot of it over here is for show, like ULEZ where huge range rovers are somehow exempt. Or where LTNs are always put on the richest streets in the nicest neighborhoods for reasons of "think of the wee children playing in the street" when there are plenty of children living outside of LTNs. Just a coincidence that all the properties inside an LTN are worth >£850k.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#913

Post by potatoz2 »

Saline9515 wrote: post #517
zozbot234 wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If bikes (not cars) are making a city "hostile to vulnerable pedestrians", that seems like a very good problem to have compared to the average car-centric city.

Bikes and cars. But cars have their own space (the road) and rules (red lights, crosswalks...), whereas cyclists ride at full speed on the pedestrian's space (the sidewalk).

It’s false that cyclists routinely ride on the sidewalk in Paris, let alone at full speed. They ride on the road (car and bus lanes) and in bike lanes. It’s true, however, that on some very popular bike routes (rue de Rivoli, boulevard Saint-Michel/Sébastopol), there are enough cyclists that don’t stop at lights that pedestrians can’t easily safely cross. This is a solvable issue that’s independent from the modal share or infrastructure.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#914

Post by potatoz2 »

Saline9515 wrote: post #447
solarexplorer wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on the city/quarter where you live. I live in the center of Barcelona and had no problems with two small kids at all. Supermarkets, real farmer's markets, hospitals, pharmacies, schools, etc are all within 10min walking distance. I work from home, but I could walk to the office it I wanted to. I don't have to leave the city at all. Eventually I gave in and bought a car, not because it was necessary…

Yeah, if you live in the most expensive part of the town, which is often the epicenter, it may be ok. However, not everyone can afford this, or justify the expense, especially since you are pitted against childless couples that don't have to support children financially. Also, the presence of bikes on the sidewalk makes it hostile for vulnerable pedestrians, and generally turn a pleasant experience (walking in a city…

I live in the 19th district of Paris—probably the cheapest district within city bounds, with the 20th, and not in the center—and I have no issue living with an under 2-year-old. Hell I even decide to go all the way to the 14th for his pediatrician appointments, on the subway. I can walk to something like 5 supermarkets and bodega-like markets, take the subway to a bunch more including specialized, I can walk to see a generalist, we walk to his daycare, etc. all < 10 minutes. I can’t imagine what you can’t do honestly.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#915

Post by potatoz2 »

Saline9515 wrote: post #611
jjevanoorschot wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you’re describing is perfectly possible without a car. I live in Amsterdam and have a young family. We own an electric cargo bike that we use for groceries and to cart around our daughter. You can use it with an infant car seat and for larger kids. When we need a car we use a car sharing app. There are around 10 cars within walking distance of our flat. Many people in cities _want_ a car but don’t need one.

Cargo bikes are dangerous for children, there is little protection in case of an accident (not necessarily with a car, a bollard is enough) and well once you have one child in, you can't really have groceries. You can't use it when it's freezing. What you describe is typical of a one-child family in Netherland, but doesn't fit the reality of most of European cities. Also Netherland has a rather high amount of cars pe…

Are they very dangerous for children? Are there statistics?

It doesn’t really freeze in Paris anymore so it's a moot point, but you can ride bikes when it does (you need different tires, just like cars, and a city that clears the roads, just like for cars).

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#916

Post by pjmlp »

lomase wrote: post #895
pjmlp wrote: post #872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pity that whole thing with having a job, and wanting to get some better living standards. People usually don't live in the suburbs by choice, they get pushed there by the higher classes that can afford the city. Having lost access to the city center during my teenage years certainly gave me a perspective on those that talk from above, without worries about everyone else.

People usually don't live in the suburbs by choice, they get pushed there by the higher classes that can afford the city. People in Spain live in the suburbs by choice.

As someone that grew up between Portugal and Spain, you can only be joking, by choice!, thanks for making my day.

Unless you mean those CEOs of construction companies, and offshore factories, with their villas and high powered sports cars.

I really would have liked my parents had such a "choice"!

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#917

Post by wiz21c »

potac wrote: post #901
stefs wrote: post #894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> close by villages, max 5km a good cycle path would do wonders there. a flat 5km ride is doable for almost everyone, including seniors and children. regarding jobs: that's got nothing to do with the carless center. to the contrary - for remote work, it'd be perfect.

Do you know the funny thing? There is a cycle path from Pontevedra that stops ~500 meters before Marin (although still Pontevedra jurisdiction). It has been like this for years. Those 500 meters are ocean. We can't cycle through...

looking at the map, everythin is on one side of the ocean, so a bit longer cycle path would do, no ?

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#918

Post by potatoz2 »

Saline9515 wrote: post #524
rcpt wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says that families are leaving because of high rent. I personally love it when my kids have freedom of movement. Every family we know is the same way. Carting them around all day and then sitting and waiting at various activities just plain sucks.

Fourth paragraph: "Her war on motorists, who last year were hit with a double whammy of speed cuts on the capital’s ring road and the tripling of parking fees for heavy vehicles, such as SUVs, has also sparked fury among families." Right now in Paris, when you have a newborn, the only mobility solution is to take an Uber if you need to go somewhere >1km from where you leave. Buses are very slow and crowded, the subwa…

> Right now in Paris, when you have a newborn, the only mobility solution is to take an Uber if you need to go somewhere >1km from where you leave. Buses are very slow and crowded, the subway doesn't have elevators for strollers, cars are just inaccessible financially due to the war on surface parking space.

This is simply false. I just mapped it from place des Fêtes to place de la Catalogne and selected only wheelchair-accessible options (note that this trip is _not_ easy to do because it goes from one end of Paris to the other). Driving it's 15 km, 45 minutes, using the ring road; public transportation takes 47 minutes (48, RER B, 59/88). You’ll notice the same pattern for, e.g. Parc Monceau to Place d’Italie, a 9 km trip (30 minute drive at 11:47am on a weekday, 45 minutes on public transportation).

Buses are slow _because of cars_. Fewer cars means faster buses. The subway is inaccessible except for line 14, but RER A and B, all tramways, and of course buses are all accessible. You can also use a baby carrier.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#919

Post by potatoz2 »

darkamaul wrote: post #640
Saline9515 wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Paris' subway doesn't have elevators, impossible with a stroller. - Buses are crowded, very slow, and being blocked for >1h because of protests or roadworks with a sick newborn is a rather unpleasant experience. I did it already. And in general, public transportation in Paris has degraded a lot. Who wants to explain to his 3-year-old son what this fine gentleman is doing while heating crack in the back of the train…

There’s a reason why most Parisian families use a Yoyo stroller or another lightweight, foldable model: you can easily take them on the subway, and if you need help with the stairs, people are always willing to help (I’ve never seen anyone refuse). Buses can be slow during peak hours because of traffic congestion, but during the day they’re fairly reliable and have plenty of space for strollers. The Paris Metro is ex…

I live in outer Paris (19th) and have the exact same experience. I’ve taken strollers on the subway without an issue and people are eager to help you (it should be easier, of course, but it’s doable). I've also taken the bus, the tramway, the RER. These days I’ll carry my son (almost 2) or take a baby carrier to go faster on the subway.

Bus are slow because of cars.

I’ve never seen a drug addict on the subway (you do see homeless people though certainly).

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#920

Post by panick21_ »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #907
panick21_ wrote: post #904

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really true. Lots of investment in public transit in the Nordic countries. Austria is doing quite well. Switzerland of course to. Italy is doing better then many would have expected 20 years ago. In Paris they are building some of the most massive expansion in a long time, and even many smaller cities are building tram lines, and the TGV is putting up record numbers. In the Baltic a massive rail expansion…

> Lots of investment in public transit in the Nordic countries. This is my favourite phrase. "lots of investment". Crime, drugs and violence gets worse, but it's okay because there is "lots of investment" in police — just meaning we keep spending more money and getting worse results. Public transport gets more expensive and worse every year, but there is a "lots of investment" in public transport — meaning we keep se…

Having just traveled all over Northern Europe, your doomer nonsense about 'crimes, drugs and violence' is hilarious. For example the automated metro in Copenhagen is a case of investment with great results.

> can't go anywhere because it's unsafe

I'm sure this is true in the fantasy land that exist in your head.

Do your far right-wing rants somewhere else.

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