US High school students' scores fall in reading and math • Hacker News Board

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#911

Post by honkycat » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:24 PM UTC

I mean, is it any question it's about money? And I don't mean money spent on education.

People are too poor and harried to care anymore.

When I was growing up, you could strive for a white collar job and get one, and we assumed it would lead to a decent life.

Now, what are kids supposed to look forward to? Tech is in the toilet, everything is going overseas, everyone is broke.

So many of my friends are unemployed, LinkedIn is filled with people desperately posting looking for jobs. Of COURSE this is going to affect early education as well.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#912

Post by honkycat » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:29 PM UTC

obscurette wrote: post #504

As someone old (60+) who was a teacher in school and thinking a lot about it: - It's mostly a cultural shift in the western world – we don't value personal responsibility any more. When I was in school in seventies, it was my responsibility to study no matter what since grade 1. It didn't matter whether I liked a teacher, topic or whatever. It's not the case any more. - Since nineties there has been a shift in educat…

Gotta say it: School was easier back then, the US was less populated. There was way more opportunity. Kids these days are treated like slaves stuck in child-jail.

I don't need to go into the traditional whining, I'm sure you are aware of the changes of the structure of America.

It's not about personal responsibility. There is a reason rich kids do better than poor kids.

The thing nobody wants to say out loud: America's demographics are changing, they are aging. We are producing less wealth. Our country has less potential.

The wealthy members of the past generation have failed to invest in the American project so we are left with a weak, crumbling economy that doesn't have any industry or useful skills to export.

We, as a country, as WEAKER and POORER than EVER.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#913

Post by geocar » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:30 PM UTC

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

> which were being questioned by some parents

I doubt that: My experience is that people who complain about books don't read them, let alone understand them enough to "question" them.

> This society has priorities which aren’t education.

Forgive me, but it's your society: You live there. It's that way because of you.

I know that sucks to hear; it's not all your fault; it seems like there is a lot of inertia; and you definitely can't overcome it all by yourself, and it is was like that before you were born; and so on,

But I urge you to take responsibility to right the ship anyway, and at risk of mixing metaphors too much stop worrying so much about who started the fire and work on putting it out. Make friends with your neighbours, and get them to help you. Stop enabling bad behaviour by referring to those other parents "questions" in their couched weasel-words and call them out for their hate and the spread of hate and ignorance.

Because literally nobody else is going to do it, and we need you.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#914

Post by georgeecollins » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:36 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #820

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

> there were 95 books in the school library which were being questioned by some parents. Instead of removing just those books, and being accused of book banning Would those parents really have support in your community if they were named and shamed?

This feels like a comment from a person not from the USA. Where my wife grew up there are really nice, established people who are proud to tell you that they don't believe in evolution and do believe in a young-earth creationism (though they wouldn't call it that). Essentially they believe stuff some people would laugh at and are proud about it and would be glad to attach their name to banning a book like Anne Frank's diary.

That isn't most places, and it isn't that the majority is that extreme almost anywhere. But you can't make assumptions about people having the same point of view as you, or that otherwise reasonable good people believe things you consider only reasonable.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#915

Post by georgeecollins » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:42 PM UTC

alchemical_piss wrote: post #750

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

The future needs serfs, not readers.

Perhaps, but the past also needed more serfs than readers. I don't think that is good, but maybe it is too idealistic to think you can create a nation of 330m critical thinkers. Not because it isn't possible, but because not everyone wants to approach life that way.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#916

Post by pantalaimon » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:44 PM UTC

atwrk wrote: post #668

etempleton wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US there are a few obvious things, but everyone acts as if we are powerless to solve them: 1. Cell phones in classrooms. I don’t know how or why they were ever allowed. They should have to be in a backpack or in a locker and off during class. 2. Not removing students with bad behavior from classrooms and schools. The current thinking on how to handle a student who is seriously misbehaving and potentially viole…

Re point 2: In Germany, among other countries, you have social education workers (a college-educated job) in school for these situations. Such behavior has underlying causes, e.g. problems at home (fresh divorce, drugs, poverty-related stress) recent trauma (accidents, death of a loved one, abuse), mental illness (AHDS etc.). Treat the cause and the behavior changes.

Yeah and it's not working at all

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#917

Post by lurking_swe » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:45 PM UTC

paulddraper wrote: post #292

tenarchits wrote: post #198

Most of the comments are focused on the supply of education. But I don't think the supply side is the problem, irrespective of teachers and high schools. There is more and cheaper education available than ever before. Nearly every highschooler has more access to learning that kings and emperors would have fought wars for less than 200 years ago. However,the United States, particularly in the last 50 years, seems to h…

> However,the United States, particularly in the last 50 years, seems to have fostered a culture averse to education. !! The rate of college graduates has increased nearby 50% over that timeframe. A rather unexpected result for a cultural aversion to education.

most students are going to college because many jobs require it, or because they were “pushed” into it by teachers or parents. Not because they value education in the slightest.

I went to a state school and was one of the “weirdos” that didn’t party or join a fraternity. IMO some of us are there to learn and socialize on the side. Others are there to socialize and learn on the side.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#918

Post by wyattblue » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:47 PM UTC

There cannot be a coherent discussion on this topic without also taking race-adjusted scores in account. America's demographics are changing and this must be understood by all.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#919

Post by Fraterkes » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:49 PM UTC

raincole wrote: post #831

Fraterkes wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you need to be able to clone yourself to raise a child with broadly similar values to yourself. My point is that I don’t think you can simultaneously argue that the older generations were raised in a way that was succesful at making them responsible individuals (in ways kids these days aren’t) and that that same generation is systematically failing at passing on responsibility to their children. Which l…

I don’t think you need to be able to clone yourself to raise a child with broadly similar values to yourself. My point is that I don’t think you can simultaneously argue that the older generations were raised in a way that was succesful at making them religious individuals (in ways kids these days aren’t) and that that same generation is systematically failing at passing on religion to their children. Which leads me…

I think this also applies in the case of religion yeah, in the sense that many people who "fail" to pass on religion to their children were mostly just not actually that religious in the first place. So you've helped me reaffirm how consistent, smart and true my beliefs are.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#920

Post by casey2 » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 6:49 PM UTC

There are 3 grade levels and 9 subjects giving 27 possible groups. It seems entirely inappropriate to pick out 3 and highlight the fact that (on a different test of students studying a different curricula) the results went down.

Especially when the NCES Data Usage Agreement clearly states "Use the data in any dataset for statistical purposes only."

As an example 4th grade reading has on a scale from 0 to 500 been between 213-223 for 20 years with of course this year (215) not being the lowest point. This is a test where many jurisdictions have 10+ point swings from test to test. There really isn't that much signal in the noise here.