Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

911–920 of 955 posts

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#911

Post by cess11 »

tguvot wrote: post #908
cess11 wrote: post #907

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're referring to this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germ... I.e. the allies forcing germans in the east to go west and leave the nazi colonial project behind. It was arguably atrocious. It is also irrelevant since the territories involved reside within the EU and there is nothing in the way for these people or their descendants relocating back to Poland or whatever. Which I suspect will…

not colonial project, but 12m ethnic germans that lived in german territories that were annexed or in other areas in europe (because they lived there for centuries). >>> During the later stages of World War II and the post-war period, Reichsdeutsche (German citizens) and Volksdeutsche (ethnic Germans living outside the Nazi state) fled and were expelled from various Eastern and Central European countries, including C…

No one is stopping them from returning, it's within the EU, they have full freedom of movement.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#912

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

halflife wrote: post #861
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re not happy, that’s on you. Time moves on, you need to accept the existence of the Israeli state. Fair enough, but what happens when the US (inevitably) decide that they're not going to support Israel anymore. Bibi has basically turned support of Israel into a culture war argument, and without consistent US support, I'm not sure Israel will survive in it's current form. Mind you, climate change could make t…

Well, Israel successfully won several wars without the US support in its early years. And right now the Israeli weapons manufacturers are booming, look at deals with the romania and Germany. Its great that most people don’t have problem with our existence, but our neighbors do. That’s why we have wars. And comparing it to the holocaust is quite different, in the entire Jewish history we never seeked to destroy anyone…

> we never seeked to destroy anyone

Mmmm, maybe you should read the Bible? Lots of violence committed by the Israelis there.

> comparing it to the holocaust is quite different

Sorry, it's mostly the same (and incredibly similar to Irish history between Catholics and Protestants). Both sides dehumanise each other, and that leads to violence and suffering. How often does Israeli media cover the bombing of Gaza? Like, a lot of the footage didn't appear on most Western media until 12months + into the conflict.

One could also make the argument that what's happening in the West bank/Gaza is basically ghettoization, which was something that happened to the Jews a lot in Western Europe. It's profoundly depressing that all the Jewish people have learned is to inflict this kind of suffering on other people.

And the current plans to basically force all of the Gazans out is again, incredibly similar to historical pogroms and treatment meted out to the Jewish people.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#913

Post by rich_sasha »

dlubarov wrote: post #833
rich_sasha wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The West Bank settlement is a clear sign of bad faith, because the only credible chance of peaceful coexistence, the Oslo Accords, earmarked the West Bank exclusively for Palestinians, or more strictly, their state. Sure, I would be delighted if either side of the border Jews and Arabs lived peacefully alongside. But that is not what is happening there. Settlers, aided by army and militias of unknown status (armed se…

> Oslo Accords, earmarked the West Bank exclusively for Palestinians, or more strictly, their state The two Oslo agreements themselves don't contain this sort of earmarking. There was a sort of informal understanding that Oslo would be a stepping stone toward a real Palestinian state, and that hasn't happened, but it would be hard to put most of the blame on Israel. Arafat walked away from a very serious statehood of…

From my research, well, Palestine may have had various shots at statehood, each time below their expectations. It's a negotiation and balance of power which they didn't have. It's hard to argue with power.

But Israel claims far, far more than "we're more powerful so its our way or the highway". Israel asserts they are in a universally morally superior position, thay it went out of its way to accomodate the Palestinians. And I think this is blatantly untrue. The Palestinians were kicked off their land 70 years ago, for complex reasons, and every year continue to be pushed further by Israel. Theres many ccontradictory things happening in Israel, but this one IMO is a clear indication that Israel is acting in bad faith.

As to your source, let's unpick this. Your link states that a UN representative erroneously claimed 14,000 children will die within 48 hours, due to malnutrition. Instead, he should have said over 12 months. Sure, thats a big difference, but either is beastly - while achieving 0 military or diplomatic effect.

Other sources I follow include the B'tselem institute, who recently called the Israeli governments actions clearly genocidal.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#915

Post by aristofun »

aristofun wrote: post #898
swat535 wrote: post #205

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

There is a real war going on between israel and hamas. On all levels, including information war. Information war is the only one where hamas is currently winning. That is why you are already heavily biased based on the tone of your questions. About 90%+ of what you see on mainstream media is either a straightforward lie or carefully designed, massaged and distorted truth (for example hamas counts as casualties everyo…

And unfortunately it is nothing new. Way before founding modern Israel there has been a long history of regular pogroms and massacres in that region. This doesn’t excuse current Israel from some mistakes and poor judgements, but it paints a very different picture that doesn’t fit sugarcoated antisemitic victim narrative that all main media sponsored by botomless pit of oil qatar money shoves up all naive western listeners.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#916

Post by ohdeargodno »

halflife wrote: post #781
Balgair wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I know this a rando internet commenter here, but what do you think is the solution then? To me, adding more money and guns into this conflict sounds like a really bad idea. But I'm not there and I'm just a fool as a result. I'm honestly asking and not just trolling, really. I'd love your perspective.

Ideally? Palestinian accepting the existence of Israel, foregoing their demands for the right to return and East Jerusalem, and then we can peacefully coexist. Realistically? Maintaining strong border security, erect more walls, prevent Palestinians from crossing into Israel, legally or illegally, control any gate they have with the outside to prevent smuggling of weapons. Regarding the hostages? Besiege Gaza until t…

lmao

>Palestinian accepting the existence of Israel

Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by an israeli as he was working toward a two state solution. Yasser Arafat recognized the right of Israel to exist in 1988 was assassinated. (sorry, "died of mysterious causes for no reasons and toxicology report said it was all good no biggie we don't know what Mossad uses anyways.). Israel spent the last 40 years systematically destroying any hope at giving palestinians any chance to ever want to "accept" Israel

>foregoing their demands for the right to return

Promised by God 3000 years ago for me but not for thee. Israel exiled millions of Palestinians from the land they were inhabiting.

>and East Jerusalem

Holy land for all three major abrahamic religions, but I guess it's israeli now. And muslims are banned. Cool cool. Now onto the cool stuff:

>Maintaining strong border security

Which ones, the ones that already existed where IDF soldiers shot children for fun ?

>erect more walls

Build a better prison ?

>prevent Palestinians from crossing into Israel

Let's see. Walls on land. Naval blockade. Yep, building a better prison. And since the IDF is, day after day pushing palestinians into whatever city is left. Khan Yunis is gone, Rafah is gone, Gaza City is gone, Jabalyia is gone, Beit Hanoun is gone. Five of the seven major cities of Gaza are rubble, and palestinians are forced to move to ever smaller encampments with no food, water or health care, while Israel is systematically stopping any attempts at sending aid.

>control any gate they have with the outside to prevent smuggling of weapons.

You already do, and you miserably failed at it. What next, nuke Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt because they might have tunnels ?

>Besiege Gaza until they are returned.

Not only have you ensured that a vast majority of hostages will never be returned by flattening Gaza and burying a vast majority of them, that's something called collective punishment.

Let's tally it up. Collective punishment. Ethnically cleansing a land (which is what the Nakba was). "God given right". Systematic and intentional starving, dehumanization and imprisonment of a group. Military occupation. Concentration camps.

I have great news for you, you're a nazi.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#917

Post by judahmeek »

andsoitis wrote: post #900
judahmeek wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is that? What are we misunderstanding about their perspective that causes the expectation to be off? There's a perfect explanation for this in Ten Steps of Genocide, which is taught by many Holocaust museums. Instead of recognizing Palestinian humanity, Israelites (not all, but enough to gain control of their government) have allowed themselves to discriminate, dehumanize, and persecute them. Granted, not doing…

> Israelites The demonym for someone from Israel is Israeli. > Instead of recognizing Palestinian humanity There are ~2m Palestinians in Israel, making up about 21% percent of the population of Israel and Palestinians in Israel have had the right to vote since 1949. According to my research, there are 10 Palestinians in the Knesset. So I don't know that your claim is accurate.

> According to my research, there are 10 Palestinians in the Knesset.

That's great, but it doesn't contradict my claim. After all, I didn't say "all Israelis". I said "enough Israelis to gain control of their government".

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#918

Post by mhb »

immibis wrote: post #899
mhb wrote: post #875

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Struggle harder to explain how 10's of thousands of civilian deaths out of a population of 2 million and which has been increasing during the "genocide" can possibly be a "genocide".

Well, that's also something they said. We may or may not find the final numbers after the war. Remember the official death count is frozen since March 2024, since they killed the people who were counting the deaths.

[flagged]

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#919

Post by dlubarov »

rich_sasha wrote: post #913
dlubarov wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oslo Accords, earmarked the West Bank exclusively for Palestinians, or more strictly, their state The two Oslo agreements themselves don't contain this sort of earmarking. There was a sort of informal understanding that Oslo would be a stepping stone toward a real Palestinian state, and that hasn't happened, but it would be hard to put most of the blame on Israel. Arafat walked away from a very serious statehood of…

From my research, well, Palestine may have had various shots at statehood, each time below their expectations. It's a negotiation and balance of power which they didn't have. It's hard to argue with power. But Israel claims far, far more than "we're more powerful so its our way or the highway". Israel asserts they are in a universally morally superior position, thay it went out of its way to accomodate the Palestinia…

> Instead, he should have said over 12 months.

In addition to ~12 months turning into "48 hours", "children aged between six months and five years" turned in "babies", and "acute malnutrition" turned into "death".

When top UN officials are pushing blatant disinformation like this with no consequences, it's hard to know who to trust for unbiased information.

> B'tselem institute, who recently called the Israeli governments actions clearly genocidal

Considering that it's B'tselem, there was never really a possibility of them reaching a different position. I don't think they've ever pushed back on anti-Israeli propaganda, such as the UN statement above.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#920

Post by andsoitis »

judahmeek wrote: post #917
andsoitis wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israelites The demonym for someone from Israel is Israeli. > Instead of recognizing Palestinian humanity There are ~2m Palestinians in Israel, making up about 21% percent of the population of Israel and Palestinians in Israel have had the right to vote since 1949. According to my research, there are 10 Palestinians in the Knesset. So I don't know that your claim is accurate.

> According to my research, there are 10 Palestinians in the Knesset. That's great, but it doesn't contradict my claim. After all, I didn't say "all Israelis". I said "enough Israelis to gain control of their government".

You said that Israelites dehumanize Palestinians.
Post reply on HN