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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#911

Post by BobaFloutist »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #900
BobaFloutist wrote: post #857

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a little steep, but you gotta grade mileage on a curve -- if it's reasonably maintained, it'll keep trucking for a lot longer than that, it should be plenty for a starter car. I mean, I'm biased, since I drive a (very well maintained when I bought it, high mileage) 2007 Prius that I bought for ~7.5k...8, 9 years ago? and I'm still getting ~40mpg and it survived some pretty questionable maintenance and care on…

> I don't know that you can do much better these days, and it doesn't feel unreasonable It's pretty unreasonable as a class of "starter car" though I can't imagine many teens working a min wage job for a summer and having a car afterwards if they cost like this

Oh, sure, I was thinking of a car relatively comfortable parents could get a kid without overspending or spoiling too much, it's not super in reach for a kid working part time.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#912

Post by cpursley »

tpm wrote: post #612
cpursley wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your understanding of what’s happened with Chinese cars is 15 years out of date. They’re really good now, even better in some ways. And honestly, it’s just the push that the legacy car builders needed.

They might be good, but service network/spare part logistics is a huge issue at least in Europe. We can also expect some of them will go bankrupt because of the current price war. Of course European manfuacturers can also go bankrupt but at least spare parts will still be available by parts/aftermarket manufacturers, will this be the case for these too?

That's a very reasonable argument. Personally I'd only go with a larger brand. Those Zeekers are very compelling and look good (European designed):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvnZ0mTCBng

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#913

Post by kayodelycaon »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #882
kayodelycaon wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota hybrids are much cheaper to maintain. - No engine belts - No starter - No alternator - No transmission(1) - No torque converter - No turbochargers - Regenerative braking can significantly reduce brake pad wear Edit: - AWD is an electric motor on the rear axle. No driveshaft or transfer case required. As long as you drive it regularly and keep up with scheduled maintenance, you don't have to do anything for wel…

No starter and no alternator? Hybrids don’t have an electric motor or a way to turn mechanical power into electrical power? Also they don’t have timing belts? I’m not super convinced that accessory belts are a major cause of maintenance. I only recall having to do that once at around 120k miles. I think there is a good argument to be made that implementations like Toyotas HSD are more reliable than plain ICE, but you…

Since I was specifically talking about Toyota hybrid, let me elaborate…

The gas engine has a timing chain and chain-driven oil pump. Everything else runs off the DC-DC converter.

The transmission is two motor-generators and an ICE directly connected by fixed gearing. This is used to start the engine.

The ICE in a hybrid doesn’t need any accessories beyond what the electric drivetrain already provides. Therefore, it does not have a starter or alternator.

There are a lot fewer moving parts that can break or wear out.

It’s a pretty elegant system that bolts a bare ICE to what is otherwise an electric car.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#914

Post by standeven »

matwood wrote: post #615
smeej wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gosh, I didn't realize people weren't learning these things anymore, just as a matter of normal life. I'm an early(ish) Millennial woman from the suburbs, from a family with no meaningful mechanical knowledge or training of any kind, and I've done most of these things. I would have considered myself pretty ignorant about cars prior to reading your comment. Thanks for shifting my perspective to seeing myself as having…

Great comment because I wondering the same thing. Do people not do any of those things on their own anymore? At a minimum, changing the oil was something I did with my dad as a kid. The hardest thing I've done was probably change a starter. ICE's are conceptually pretty simple. Anyone who has built a computer should be able to do basic car maintenance if they want to. The electronics is what makes newer cars more com…

It probably varies between EV manufacturers, but my Tesla Model 3 has been the easiest vehicle to self maintain that I’ve owned yet. Mostly due to how little maintenance there is, but also because of the completely open and online factory service manuals and parts manuals.

It’s ridiculously easy to look up a part number, order it online from wherever is most convenient, and follow the steps in the manual to replace it.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#915

Post by LUmBULtERA »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #902
LUmBULtERA wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow this logic at all. We have a Model Y SUV. We use the space of its hatchback and frunk frequently, and it's much more efficient to drive than a Sienna or Odyssey. There's no logical reason to conclude a minivan would be better for our purposes.

A model Y is not anywhere near an SUV, regardless of classification for tax purposes. It's also not comparable because it is all electric. The form factor of a typical SUV, such as an X7 or Land Cruiser or Explorer or Suburban, is inherently more wasteful than a minivan. The only thing those offer 99% of people is that they allow the driver to sit higher up, and be able to say they are not driving a minivan. Otherwis…

The Model Y is commonly understood to be a SUV. You can't just make it not so because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#916

Post by LUmBULtERA »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #902
LUmBULtERA wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow this logic at all. We have a Model Y SUV. We use the space of its hatchback and frunk frequently, and it's much more efficient to drive than a Sienna or Odyssey. There's no logical reason to conclude a minivan would be better for our purposes.

A model Y is not anywhere near an SUV, regardless of classification for tax purposes. It's also not comparable because it is all electric. The form factor of a typical SUV, such as an X7 or Land Cruiser or Explorer or Suburban, is inherently more wasteful than a minivan. The only thing those offer 99% of people is that they allow the driver to sit higher up, and be able to say they are not driving a minivan. Otherwis…

Also no, an ID Buzz in an electric minivan, and I wouldn't inherently say it's better than an electric SUV. It gets pretty poor range and efficiency, and so a smaller SUV like a Model Y can make more sense if you don't need that extra storage capacity.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#917

Post by giantg2 »

km144 wrote: post #683
giantg2 wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure inflation adjusted median income has increased from 2005 to 2025. But it sure doesn't feel like it. I wonder if other costs such as housing and healthcare have gotten less affordable affecting the real affordability. Inflation adjustments should capture this, but it feels like it doesn't.

Housing, healthcare, childcare, and education have become more expensive. These are the biggest expenses for most people and are necessities. So the percentage of income available for other expenses has definitely decreased. Not sure about real wages though.

In theory, inflation is supposed to capture those increases. The median real wage has gone up about 10-15% from 2005-2025. In theory, it should be more affordable. It doesn't feel that way to me, but maybe there are numbers I'm missing, or the way we measure inflation and apply it to affordability is broken.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#918

Post by wodenokoto »

puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #261

You can still buy a new subcompact car (like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia) in Europe for under 20k EUR. The more interesting question is why these cars disappeared in the US. And while many of the factors discussed here are true for both EU and US (inflation, interest rates, manufacturer profit margins etc) I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-ro…

Even in Denmark, which has over 100% tax on cars, you can get a new vehicle for $20k

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#919

Post by otikik »

potato3732842 wrote: post #441
CalRobert wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure, a lot of people seem quick to blame children for “darting” in to the road instead of accepting responsibility for operating a dangerous machine.

People lay the blame on children and their parents because if they choose to do their best bipedal impression of a deer there's really nothing a driver can do. One could be going 10mph and if a child darts out from parked cars at the right time you're gonna hit them. Heck, adults get hit by forklifts and other heavy equipment going single digit speeds all the time and even workplaces that separate traffic nearly comp…

SUVs parked on the side of the street make it difficult to see even adults as they try to cross the street. It’s not the humans doing a reindeer impression, it’s the cars doing a forest impression

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#920

Post by Dylan16807 »

kube-system wrote: post #700
dgfitz wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't replace a tire sensor without getting it coded. Complete bullshit.

A car on a busy highway needs to know which sensors belong to itself. Some cars are a PITA to program, but many can be done with cheap tools.

> A car on a busy highway needs to know which sensors belong to itself.

A sensor you were paired to disappears. Now a new sensor is showing up, and it sticks with you for an entire hour.

Sounds pretty easy for a computer to figure that puzzle out.

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