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Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

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Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#911

Post by kubb »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #897
kubb wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Republican party is incentivized both to have illegal immigration, and to fight against illegal immigration. They act accordingly to those incentives.

I guess the Democratic party is only incentivize to have illegal immigration? Although there might be incentive to fight against it at least for votes next time around, this issue lost the election (a non-dementia version of Biden would’ve recognized this, but his family loved the power so they kept him in)

The Democrats have similar incentives (see Biden’s admin’s actions, esp. deportation numbers), but they don’t use the anti immigrant rhetoric and don’t do the ICE raids for show because they also have the progressive, moderate and educated voters, and possibly also have scruples.

They sometimes say that they want less illegal and more legal immigration.

Biden’s dementia isn’t an explanation here, that’s really mostly just political ammo.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#912

Post by averageRoyalty »

bix6 wrote: post #49

This is terrifying and unconscionable. Hard to believe this is the USA today. I don’t really see this de-escalating given the ongoing rhetoric but I hope I’m wrong.

As someone outside the US, I find this strange. You have a democratically elected president, elected in part on a platform of removing illegal immigrants. He is now removing illegal immigrants. That is democracy at work, is it not?

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#913

Post by anigbrowl »

erezsh wrote: post #300
anigbrowl wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, to say otherwise is uninformed or dishonest.

Can you provide some examples?

No, I am not your valet. You can easily search for something like 'democrats condemn violence' if you actually want to know instead of wasting my time.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#914

Post by ygjb »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #907
lemoncookiechip wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this isn't about that. This is about having a perceived enemy that only you can fight. If it wasn't immigrants (legal or illegal), it would be a different group, within or outside of your borders. It's fascism 101.

> It's fascism 101. It is absolutely not. It is politics 101: you are the only one who can solve a problem. War on Drugs, War on Terror.

That's disingenuous - all policy is inherently political. Reducing the tactics of fascism to politics is no different than the claim that all politicians are the same.

It's no mistake that the War on Drugs and the War on Terror were both radical increases in authoritarian power, both of which were implemented by Republicans as part of right-wing approaches to addressing both perceived and real threats.

Yes, those are political objectives, but the entire point of calling them out as fascist is to distinguish them from other anti-fascist political objectives which seek to reduce or constrain the power of the state, or to strengthen human rights guaranteed by the state.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#915

Post by komali2 »

yupitsme123 wrote: post #836
localghost3000 wrote: post #790

I live in LA and have been here for almost 30 years now. This stunt is a provocation designed to get a reaction. He wants an excuse to crack heads in a city he hates and that hates him back. He probably also wants us to forget about Musk outing him on the Epstein files. Watching this unfold here is reminding me strongly of the Ghorman plotline in Andor S2: "You need a resistance you can count on to do the wrong thing…

I don't disagree with you, but after all the damage that was done by riots in 2020, there should be a desire to nip violent protests in the bud.

If you please, I would find your argument more compelling if I wasn't personally aware that the damage from protests in 2020 was very little compared to normal day to day activity in cities, or the typical damage after a popular sporting event, as well as my awareness that the most famous incidents of damage from BLM protests were from positively identified undercover police officers and white supremacist agitators.

Given these facts, can you justify moving America towards more of a police state (and abdicating more of our liberties) because of... why?

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#916

Post by CogitoCogito »

averageRoyalty wrote: post #912
bix6 wrote: post #49

This is terrifying and unconscionable. Hard to believe this is the USA today. I don’t really see this de-escalating given the ongoing rhetoric but I hope I’m wrong.

As someone outside the US, I find this strange. You have a democratically elected president, elected in part on a platform of removing illegal immigrants. He is now removing illegal immigrants. That is democracy at work, is it not?

The presidency is only legally afforded some powers. The issue here isn't Trump's fulfilling of campaign promises. The issue here is if Trump is following the law while doing so.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#917

Post by 1dom »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #583
1dom wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of humanity might suffer, at least that's my fear. Suffer compared to what? That's the alternative? Number 1 stays number 1? The world works in peaks and troughs, swings and roundabouts. What goes up must come down. Time marches on, change happens. This comes with suffering, but is also the definition of progress. Nothing is the best forever, and the one's at the top who don't acknowledge that are the ones with…

death, lots of it. wars. famine. disease outbreaks,etc.. usaid being dismantled alone will do that. economic depressions, mass unemployment and civil wars and civil unrest,etc... mid 20th century but x10. Decline is not inevitable. others like China can rise, there could be multiple successful and wealthy countries. heck, even in a decline, america can become like germany instead of like venezuela. the decline you're…

I feel like I'm not communicating my point well and you're misunderstanding. Decline is inevitable. Not universal decline though. I believe we'll move forward as a species, but that overall progression is made up of lots of groups constantly declining and improving at different paces and times.

I think you don't understand what I'm saying because you said e.g. "others like China can rise" - my point is China has already risen, and fallen, and risen and will continue to do so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ages_of_China. Just like the US will. And the troughs will be tragic compared to the peaks.

This is what long term empires do. They rise and fall and rise and fall, and that rises and falls include wars, famine, disease outbreak, advances in war, science, tech, health etc.

I feel civilised societies have said exactly what you've said since the dawn of man "we're civilized, we've moved beyond incivility now" when in reality, they were just in one of the many times where their society just so happened to be leading the way.

Sorry, because I know you don't believe this, and you want to believe "we the people" can stop change this natural cycling, but it's a feature of relativity. Ultimately, you're saying the same thing optimists have been saying for millenia, and here we are, war, hunger, famine is all still happening. Same stuff we've been doing for millenia, just with fancier tech.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#918

Post by ExoticPearTree »

ygjb wrote: post #914
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #907

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's fascism 101. It is absolutely not. It is politics 101: you are the only one who can solve a problem. War on Drugs, War on Terror.

That's disingenuous - all policy is inherently political. Reducing the tactics of fascism to politics is no different than the claim that all politicians are the same. It's no mistake that the War on Drugs and the War on Terror were both radical increases in authoritarian power, both of which were implemented by Republicans as part of right-wing approaches to addressing both perceived and real threats. Yes, those are…

> both of which were implemented by Republicans as part of right-wing approaches to addressing both perceived and real threats.

In between republican presidents there were also Democrat presidents and they did zero to put a stop to any of them. Zero. Using your logic above, both types of presidents are fascist in nature since they followed the same policies.

What I am saying is that when the state takes power from the people, it (almost) never gives it back. Just like with laws, repealing them is a gargantuan task and again, almost no will to do it. Taxes, they go up more then they ever go down.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#919

Post by rkagerer »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #881
snarf21 wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the whole platform is about Othering. The greatest trick the rich ever pulled was convincing the middle class that the poor are the cause of all their problems.

And power. Like their power over this young girl trying to go home: Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1l88mhj/lap... Old dead link: https://www.reddit.com/r/chaoticgood/comments/1l8ax0z/protes... Remember, less lethal does not mean non-lethal and doesn't mean it can't cause enough damage to impact someone's quality of life forever.

Poignant video.

The cameraperson or another bystander should have called 911, asked for ambulance (and maybe fire dept) to attend. In addition to medical care, that would at least get some higher degree of paperwork going from an accountability perspective.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#920

Post by jasonm23 »

snarf21 wrote: post #533
lemoncookiechip wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this isn't about that. This is about having a perceived enemy that only you can fight. If it wasn't immigrants (legal or illegal), it would be a different group, within or outside of your borders. It's fascism 101.

Yeah, the whole platform is about Othering. The greatest trick the rich ever pulled was convincing the middle class that the poor are the cause of all their problems.

this is more like that gilded age robber barron saying: I can pay half the poor to kill the other half.
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