Is it official then? Most of us have been waiting for this moment for a while. The transformer architecture as it is currently understood can't be milked any further. Many of us knew this since last year. GPT-5 delays eventually led to non-tech voices to suggest likewise. But we all held our final decision until the next big release from OpenAI as Sam Altman has been making claims about AGI entering the workforce thi…
It's always been a combination of data and scale (garbage data on massive scale gives garbage still). Data is continually getting better though so we'll still be able to squeeze a lot out of transformers yet
It will be upheld as prime example that a whole market can self-hypnotize and ruin the society its based upon out of existence against all future pundits of this very economic system.
what you're saying is they love to hallucinate... and ai will help them get there
Is it official then? Most of us have been waiting for this moment for a while. The transformer architecture as it is currently understood can't be milked any further. Many of us knew this since last year. GPT-5 delays eventually led to non-tech voices to suggest likewise. But we all held our final decision until the next big release from OpenAI as Sam Altman has been making claims about AGI entering the workforce thi…
This seems very dramatic given OpenAI still has the best model in the world `o3`.
Is it official then? Most of us have been waiting for this moment for a while. The transformer architecture as it is currently understood can't be milked any further. Many of us knew this since last year. GPT-5 delays eventually led to non-tech voices to suggest likewise. But we all held our final decision until the next big release from OpenAI as Sam Altman has been making claims about AGI entering the workforce thi…
> OpenAI knowing how to build AGI and similar outlandish claims.
The fact that the scaling of pretrained models is hitting a wall doesn't invalidate any of those claims. Everyone in the industry is now shifting towards reasoning models (a.k.a. chain of thought, a.k.a. inference time reasoning, etc.) because it keeps scaling further than pretraining.
Sam said the phrase you refer to [1] in January, when OpenAI had already released o1 and was preparing to release o3.
I got gpt-4.5-preview to summarize this discussion thread so far (at 324 comments): hn-summary.sh 43197872 -m gpt-4.5-preview Using this script: https://til.simonwillison.net/llms/claude-hacker-news-themes... Here's the result: https://gist.github.com/simonw/5e9f5e94ac8840f698c280293d399... It took 25797 input tokens and 1225 input tokens, for a total cost (calculated using https://tools.simonwillison.net/llm-prices…
Seems to have trouble recognizing sarcasm: "For example, there are now a bunch of vendors that sell 'respond to RFP' AI products... paying 30x for marginally better performance makes perfect sense." — hn_throwaway_99 (an uncommon opinion supporting possible niche high-cost uses).
I don't think they are being sarcastic. Maybe you are the bot /s
I'm not convinced that LLMs in their current state are really making anyone's lives much better though. We really need more research applications for this technology for that to become apparent. Polluting the internet with regurgitated garbage produced by a chat bot does not benefit the world. Increasing the productivity of software developers does not help to the world. Solving more important problems should be the…
LLM's have been extremely useful for me. They are incredibly powerful programmers, from the perspective of people who aren't programmers . Just this past week claude 3.7 wrote a program for us to use to quickly modernize ancient (1990's) proprietary manufacturing machine files to contemporary automation files. This allowed us to forgo a $1k/yr/user proprietary software package that would be able to do the same. The p…
I think that's great for work and great for corporations. I use AI at my job too, and I think it certainly does increase productivity!
How does any of this make the world a better place? CEOs like Sam Altman have very lofty ideas about the inherent potential "goodness" of higher-order artificial intelligence that I find thus far has not borne out in reality, save a few specific cases. Useful is not the same as good. Technology is inherently useful, that does not make it good.
Considering both this blog post and the livestream demos, I am underwhelmed. Having just finished the stream, I had a real "was that all" moment, which on one hand shows how spoiled I've gotten by new models impressing me, but on another feels like OpenAI really struggles to stay ahead of their competitors. What has been shown feels like it could be achieved using a custom system prompt on older versions of OpenAIs m…
> How could they justify that asking price? They're still selling $1 for <$1. Like personal food delivery before it, consumers will eventually need to wake up to this fact - these things will get expensive, fast.
This is often claimed on HN but there is no evidence that it is actually true.
sama has tweeted that they lose money on pro, but in general according to leaks chatgpt subscriptions are quite profitable. The reason the company isn't profitable in general is they spend billions on R&D.
GPT 4.5 pricing is insane: Price Input: $75.00 / 1M tokens Cached input: $37.50 / 1M tokens Output: $150.00 / 1M tokens GPT 4o pricing for comparison: Price Input: $2.50 / 1M tokens Cached input: $1.25 / 1M tokens Output: $10.00 / 1M tokens It sounds like it's so expensive and the difference in usefulness is so lacking(?) they're not even gonna keep serving it in the API for long: > GPT‑4.5 is a very large and comput…
> We look forward to learning more about its strengths, capabilities, and potential applications in real-world settings. If GPT‑4.5 delivers unique value for your use case, your feedback (opens in a new window) will play an important role in guiding our decision. "We don't really know what this is good for, but spent a lot of money and time making it and are under intense pressure to announce new things right now. If…
The fact they're raising prices so steeply is telling. This smells like desperation.
If you ran the same query set 30x or 15x on the cheaper model (and compensated for all the extra tokens the reasoning model uses), would you be able to realize the same 26% quality gain in a machine-adjudicatible kind of way?
with a reasoning model you'd get better than both.
Exactly. Not sure why you'd pick GPT 4.5 over lots of GPT 4o queries or an o1 query
I don’t mean to disagree too strongly, but just to illustrate another perspective: I don’t feel this is a weak result. Consider if you built a new version that you _thought_ would perform much better, and then you found that it offered marginal-but-not-amazing improvement over the previous version. It’s likely that you will keep iterating. But in the meantime what do you do with your marginal performance gain? Do you…
I've worked for very large software companies, some of the biggest products ever made, and never in 25 years can I recall us shipping an update we didn't know was an improvement. The idea that you'd ship something to hundreds of millions of users and say "maybe better, we're not sure, let us know" is outrageous.
The consumer facing applications have been so embarrassing and underwhelming too.. It's really shocking. Gemini, Apple Intelligence, Copilot, whatever they call the annoying thing in Atlassian's products.. They're all completely crap. It's a real "emperor has no clothes" situation, and the market is reacting. I really wish the tech industry would lose the performative "innovation" impulse and focus on delivering high quality useful tools. It's demoralizing how bad this is getting.