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Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

bbc.com

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Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#911

Post by yew »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #886

As a British citizen I am amazed at how much the government has invaded our privacy. I think it started after 9/11 when they first introduced terrorism laws and saw they could get away with it. I wonder if the ruling classes are nervous, given the state and direction of our economy and the inequality, as well as the iron grip a small part of the country has maintained on society. They are perhaps making preparations…

Hm. I see them as connected - "we must confront our problems domestically before we fight them abroad."

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#912

Post by protonbob »

quickthrowman wrote: post #642
protonbob wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rebels are able to use techniques that a government never could or would. I think you underestimate the usefulness of small arms in guerilla warfare.

I think you underestimate the lethality of remotely piloted drones with missiles and IR cameras and the futility of fighting against them.

You can pretty easily build / buy these. Look at Ukraine. Lots of their drones were just off the shelf. Jamming is super directional and easy to spot so fighting forces use it sparingly.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#913

Post by AlgebraFox »

QuiEgo wrote: post #833

The cloud is just someone else’s computer. If you really, really care about privacy, self host.

That works for nerds like us. But my sister or my non tech friends don't have knowledge to self host. It is like asking a person to do a surgery on themselves when they don't have medical knowledge. E2E services are very crucial for such normal people.

How long do you think for governments to make it illegal to self host or backdoor Linux builds? They have already went too far by just asking backdoor to data of every single person on the planet. We should oppose such unethical laws rather than finding workarounds.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#914

Post by rhubarbtree »

yew wrote: post #911
rhubarbtree wrote: post #886

As a British citizen I am amazed at how much the government has invaded our privacy. I think it started after 9/11 when they first introduced terrorism laws and saw they could get away with it. I wonder if the ruling classes are nervous, given the state and direction of our economy and the inequality, as well as the iron grip a small part of the country has maintained on society. They are perhaps making preparations…

Hm. I see them as connected - "we must confront our problems domestically before we fight them abroad."

Please could you expand? I'm very confused by what's going on in the states, particular the attitude in the tech community, so any clarity would be appreciated!

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#915

Post by giorgioz »

> Caro Robson said she believed it was "unprecedented" for a company "simply to withdraw a product rather than cooperate with a government".

She believes wrong. Google retreated from the Chinese market to not give in. Apple stayed in China and also banned VPNs on App Stores for Chinese customers. Kudos to Apple to not giving in to a backdoor in this case but some there companies took a even higher moral stand in some other situations, so there is precedent indeed.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#916

Post by cg5280 »

JohnFen wrote: post #320
grahamj wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the only thing you can have a high level of trust in is your own *nix server. Backup those devices to it then encrypt there before being sent to the cloud.

Handling the encryption yourself is the way to go, but for maximum security, don't send that encrypted data to the cloud. Keep it all on your own server(s). That doesn't help people who aren't technically capable, of course. But at least those who are can protect themselves.

Why couldn't the government just get a warrant and take your local servers? At that point there doesn't seem to be much of a difference with respect to this threat model, at least cloud is convenient.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#917

Post by wonderwonder »

kobieps wrote: post #768
wonderwonder wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, the UK is speed running 1984 right in front of us.

Only three (well, now four) mentions of 1984 in the comments tells you all you need to know

sorry friend, I am actually not sure what you mean by this comment. Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing :) Apologies, probably my fault.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#918

Post by yew »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #914
yew wrote: post #911

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm. I see them as connected - "we must confront our problems domestically before we fight them abroad."

Please could you expand? I'm very confused by what's going on in the states, particular the attitude in the tech community, so any clarity would be appreciated!

Not particularly. The matter is no longer up for discussion. Silence and action are best.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#919

Post by rapjr9 »

anoncow wrote: post #506

>Online privacy expert Caro Robson said she believed it was "unprecedented" for a company "simply to withdraw a product rather than cooperate with a government. That is such a self serving comment. If Apple provides UK a backdoor, it weakens all users globally. With this they are following the local law and the country deserves what the rulers of the country want. These experts are a bit much. In the next paragraph t…

This is actually an increasing concern, that large multinational companies are so powerful that they don't have to obey governments any more, and can instead blackmail them by withdrawing products. Pornhub has done this in US states. Meta has threatened to do it in various countries. There has always been pushback to regulation from powerful companies, but punishing countries by withdrawing products seems to be used as a tactic more often recently. There are other tools of power companies use as well, like deciding where to create jobs and build facilities. Musk has used that, moving from California to Texas. Defence and oil companies use these tactics also.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#920

Post by jmholla »

eterm wrote: post #862
kmeisthax wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the politicians want is partial security: something they can crack but criminals can't. That is achievable in physical security, but not in cybersecurity. I have a feeling the politicians already know partial cybersecurity isn't an option, and don't care. Certainly, the intelligence community advising them absolutely does know. We don't even have to be conspiratorial about it: their jobs are easier in the world…

> That is achievable in physical security, but not in cybersecurity This isn't accurate though, and leads us down the path of trying to prevent these bad laws from a technical perspective when we should be fighting the principle of the bad law not just decrying it for being "unworkable". It is possible to construct encryption schemes with a "backdoor key" while still being provably secure against anyone else. This cr…

> This creates precisely the "partial security" you describe: Criminals can't crack the encryption, but the government can use their backdoor-key.

No, it doesn't. Now criminals just have to get the key. These schemes have been tried many times. They've been discovered by actors that shouldn't have access to them.

Please don't go around advising government leaders and organizations. This is exactly the problem solving capabilities of governmental leaders that security experts are decrying here in this thread.

I honestly though get you're comment was going to go along the lines of perfect physical security can only be perfectly secure from everyone, including the people it shouldn't be. We constantly see the hacking oh physical locations. The big things keeping some orgs from being attacked: redundancy, observability, and ENCRYPTION WITHOUT BACKDOORS!

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